Changing Hi Ph Levels

[scozzman]

Hi all...

Thanks for all your replies regarding using bore/rain water for my tropical fish.

I got my water thoroughly tested at a specialist fish store and the results prove that this water is excellent for the fish.

However the only problem is the Ph is off the chart - Very high Alkalinity.

I have brought some 'ph down' chemical and would like to know the best way to introduce it into the tank without too much change that will affect the fish.

How often should i add the ph down and at what intervals.

The tank is about 216lts and i have two Oscars.

Thanks...

 

[JoeyBlackrose]

I clean my Oscar tank everyother day. 25 % water change. Each time I change I check my PH. and adjust it if needed.

 

[Themuleous]

I'm always a little dubious about using pH adjusters, you're messing with a very important aspect of the water and to use things like pH adjusters always worries me. Its better to have fish that are suited to the water you have rather than the other way around. The only 'safe' way I know of to reduce the pH is to soften the water somehow, either using RO/DI water or a water softening pillow.

You're fighting a loosing battle using pH adjusters and if the 'adjuster' runs out say if you went away, the pH could bounce all over the place, which isn't going to be very good for the fish.

When you say 'hard' just how hard do you mean? I see oscar's can be in water 6 - 8pH

Sam

 

[gpgscott]

pH refers to acidity/basicity NOT alkalinity. Rainwater by definition cannot be alkaline as it is the product of water vapor, all of the minerals are left here on earth. What you are telling us here makes no sense. Water by nature is neutral, impurities make it either acid or basic, soft or alkaline. I am suspect of the test results you have been given if the sample was truly unadultrated rainwater. Also what is "very high" alkalinity. Alkalinity is desirable, you need a minimum of 60 ppm (3 degrees) and a maximum of 120 ppm (6 degrees) for stable pH in the aquarium environment. I hope this all makes sense, but what you have said you have been told doesn't add up. Scott

 

[Tessla]

gpgscott brings up some important points in his post. Try to get us some numbers for GH (general hardness), KH (carbonate hardness/buffering capacity) and pH so that we can sort out your water problems if any.

Can you get an actual reading for your pH other than off the charts? You can find test kits that will register a pH above 8, I use an API kit on my tanks (tap water is wretched here, comes out at 8 and full of buffers) that can test between 7.4 and 8.8 with the high range solution, 6.0 and 7.6 with the normal indicator solution. If your water is way over 8, I'd use rainwater or RO water (with minerals added or cut with plain tap water) for water changes, add some bogwood, filter your water over peat or add some peat to your filter. pH Down will likely cause you much more trouble than it's worth, a stable pH is more important than having a perfect 7. Many fish are very tolerant of a higher pH.

If the water you're using for water changes has a much different reading than the tank itself, you've likely got something in the tank bringing your pH up. Any shells or coral in there?

On a completely different note, having kept oscars before, I'd say that 216 liters is cutting it a bit close for one oscar let alone two. Got a bigger tank for these guys in the works?

 

[gpgscott]

Hey Tessla,

What I really don't get is the difference between GH and KH can you put it in plain language? Thanks, Scott.

 

[Tessla]

They're both a measure of the concentration of various ions dissolved in the water as a result of various salts being dissolved. (Using the term salt as it is referred to in chemistry, not just sodium chloride.)

GH measures the concentration of calcium and magnesium cations (positively charged ions) as well as a few other metal cations. This is what is usually referred to as making water "hard" or "soft."

KH measures the concentration of carbonate and bicarbonate anions (negatively charged ions.) It is these ions that buffer your water and prevent large jumps in pH when an acid is added.

Good article about hardness as it applies to aquariums with more detail here.

 

[gpgscott]

thx

 

[scozzman]

Sorry i havnt explained myself correctly.

The ph reading is above 8.

I know what you mean about rain water being nuetral, but 1/2 of our water comes from and underground spring/bore, so maybe that accounts for the high ph.

Are you saying that i should leave the ph as is.
I have no coral.

As for the tank i will upgrade when they get bigger.
What size tank do you recommend for two oscars???

 

[Tessla]

If you can get a more accurate pH reading it would be helpful, 8.6 and higher I'd take major action, but if it's only 8.2 or 8.4 you'll probably be fine with just adding some bogwood to the tank and peat to the filter. It sounds like your water is having the same problem I have with my tap water, all of my tanks have a pH consistently at or slightly above 8 with no ill effects.

I've only ever kept one oscar, and that was in an 80 gallon tank by himself. I'd consider 75 gallons the minimum for one as they're very active intelligent fish, for two I wouldn't go under a hundred just so that they have enough room to get out of each other's way. I'd also upgrade ASAP as they're very fast growers and will likely stunt if you wait "until they get bigger." Hopefully you'll have no trouble keeping them together in the same tank as they'll have grown up together, but they all have different personalities.