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Caribsea Eco Complete Planted Substrate

Got to say its sounds brilliant, not sure why you wouldn't vacuum it (although thats something I never do anyway). I've been thinking of setting up a small tank for shrimp, I may see if I can find this in the UK
 
After reading about it, I think your friend meant not to rinse it before use as it contains trace elements that you may wash out.
 
No he actually also said NOT to vac it. If you vac it you also get rid of all the good stuff from the surface, This stuff breaks down fish poo, He also said I will need to replace it in 3 years. He owns the LFS I go to the 10 kg bag was given to me as a free sample. The stuff aint cheap in LFS its 80 AUD
for 10 KG bag.
 
 
 
although thats something I never do anyway).
May I ask why? Every week I have vac'ed my gravel, Am I wasting my time?
 
Tank is 61cm long 31cm wide 38cm  high( This measurement was made to the top of the water not the top of the tank. )  for a total of 72 LT, 16 imp gal, 19 US gal.
 
Contents of tank.
1 Betta.
4 Snails.
5 Cherry shrimp. ( I think, I see one every now and then.)
 
Yeah I saw it was very expensive, not many people stock it in UK. Just never see the need to do vacuum, my filter must pick the gunk up off the sand. I have done it in the past but never had to do it with my present tank.
 
Vaccing is good husbandry IMO - I can see his point but poor husbandry could lead to Cyanobacteria which is a headache you don't need.
Just Vac.
 
I used to vac often but recently I've more or less stopped doing it unless it really is bad. If you have good filtration and have the flow from the filters right then most of the poop should get sucked into the filter. If you have 'dead spots' where debris and poop collect then there's possibly a need to have a play with the filter flow. Also, fish poop is free plant food so having a bit around the plants can be a good thing!
 
I've had cyanobacteria (or blue/green algae as we call it in the U.K) and it's easily fixed. Just black the tank out completely for 4 -5 days and it's gone. I found it was more caused by excess lighting than poor husbandry ... just my opinion though :)
 
Contents of tank.
1 Betta.
4 Snails.
5 Cherry shrimp. ( I think, I see one every now and then.)
1 cat fish. ( new addition )
 
They cant poop all that much LOL.  With all the plants and new substrate I guess I will be fine with weekly water changes and glass cleaning. I will monitor the water quality closely for the next 2 weeks say do water tests every 2 or 3 days and if the moderators do not mind I will post the results in this thread.
 
I don't really vac as such, and this isn't gravel it's aquasoil. I vac gravel, and it's the only substrate I've had cyanobacter on (and that can be a real pain to clear at times, although Akasha leapt on it quickly and sorted it well, it is a headache worth avoiding though).
 
This stuff, I'd use a hose to swish around and gently agitate any surface mess and such that up. Not everything is easily biodegradable and it'll look a mess eventually. So I do vac, a bit, just not like I would with a gravel cleaner.
 
As for 3 years, yeah, they so say that. It's like soil in a plant pot, if you keep growing on it and don't add more nutrients then it'll deplete, but if you keep the water column well topped up with nutrients then it'll hold on to the supplies very well and act as a good nutrient buffer, (it has a high CEC).
 
So overall, it's a good substrate. Personally I've used several aquasoils and rapidly forgot which one was in which tank as I couldn't tell much difference, but this one is fine, enjoy planting in it.
 
Yeah the cyanobacteria thing - If you've got rotting debris on the surface the bacteria will love it, breaking it down in to plant food - if it's cyano that pitches up it'll like the light for it's photosynthesising carry on.- Vac that up (and like the Doc I mean suck up rather than dig around type vac) and you're taking away the problem before it starts.
 
[---Insert analogy here---]
I don't have to take the bins out because I rarely get rats, if I do I just put poison down.....prolly best to just take the bins out ;o)
 
 
IMO
 
The reason one does not vacuum planted tank substrates is the stuff you would remove forms the base of the food chain for the plants and bacteria. It sinks into the substrate and is broken down by bacteria etc. which convert it to ammonia which both other bacteria and plants use (bacteria takes up NH3 and plants the NH4).
 
I have never been a fan of fancy overpriced (imo) plant substrates. I have always used whatever I like the looks of and sprinkled in a bit of laterite in the bottom third and then let the build up of mulm and some strategically placed Jobes Spikes do the rest. I am just careful to use smaller gravel for planted tanks is about it.
 
If anybody is interested I have maybe 50 pounds of used fluorite for sale cheap. Its been in buckets now for years.
tongue2.gif

 
I am sure that substrate would work fine if you are willing to spend the money and do the "replacing." I ran my high light pressurized co2 added tank for 11 years and never changed so much as one piece of gravel. I have other lower tech planted tanks with the same gravel for as long.
 
I would not waste money buying Eco-Complete (CarribSea) nor the very similar Flourite (Seachem), as I'll explain momentarily.  As you (Nick) were given a bag free, it's up to you, but here I would point out that both these products are bad for substrate fish.  You mention a "catfish" so be careful.  With a Betta alone I wouldn't worry, but these products are rough.  I was alerted to this several years ago (about Eco-complete) so when I decided to finally try one of these so-called "enriched substrates" I went with Flourite because in my hand it did not feel rough.  My corys in this tank developed serious mouth issue, one even lost about a third of its mouth, and I had to remove them.  Barbels dissolved on some of the corys, and they all had bleeding mouths.  Placed over sand, they fortunately recovered, though the one panda still has only 2/3 of a mouth, but now two three years later he has obviously been eating.  I had been warned about this by a catfish importer, but I thought the Flourite was less rough as I say, but not so.
 
As for the "benefit" of these two substrates, I found none at all.  I had the 70g tank set up with Flourite substrate for two years before I tore it down and used play sand, and now two years after that the plants are just as good.  I found that I still had to add liquid fertilizers, and was even advised to use substrate tabs, something I would have thought unnecessary.  I have come across a number of other aquarists online with similar experiences, so I certainly would give these products a skip on both counts.
 
As for the vacuuming the substrate, I would assume the reasoning to be the claim by CarribSea that Eco-complete has bacteria in it to break down the organics.  It is true that waste settling into the substrate is advisable in planted tanks, because bacteria will naturally colonize the substrate to break down organics.  This is the prime source of CO2 for plants.  This is what should occur in any planted tank with a plain sand or fine gravel substrate.
 
As for the filter flow, if it is strong enough to remove all the fish excrement it is way too strong for a planted tank, and probably for the poor fish too.  The detritus should settle down into the substrate and provide nutrients for the plants rooted in the substrate, and CO2 is a natural by-product of the breakdown.  Snails help by eating the excrement and breaking it down faster for the bacteria to handle.  I have severn tanks with relatively small fish (tetra, etc) and I never see excrement on the substrate; a very fine cloud can be raised but that is a very different thing, and it shows that the biology is doing what it should be doing.
 
Byron.
 
 
detritus should settle down into the substrate and provide nutrients for the plants rooted
When I moved 1 of my plants I found it had 6 inch roots spreading out in all directions in the substrate,  When I planted it the roots were small now they are thick and long,
 
 
The reason one does not vacuum planted tank substrates is the stuff you would remove forms the base of the food chain for the plants and bacteria. It sinks into the substrate and is broken down by bacteria etc. which convert it to ammonia which both other bacteria and plants use (bacteria takes up NH3 and plants the NH4).
Oh I hate dead leaves in the tank. Knowing all this now I should have gone with sand I think.
 
 
As for the filter flow, if it is strong enough to remove all the fish excrement it is way too strong for a planted tank, and probably for the poor fish too.
Tell me about it, It took me days to get flow rate right so as not to upset my betta.
 
Removing dead leaves is fine. Vacuuming gunk off leaves is fine. Vacuuming the substrate where it is open and unplanted is fine as well, Just do not deep vacuum at al only get the surface junk up if needed..
 

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