Can Water Be Too Hard

[saz326]

It says everywhere that the GH should be more than 7, and KH more than 10 - but what if you have a GH and KH matching at 18-ish

I am in a very hard water area - the inside of my kettle is truely chalky. Is this water too hard for Mbuna?

I am wanting to simulate the water comosition so have purchased the required salts etc but as my tap water is so hard I would need to use RO water and add salts to that.. This would be madness.
Can I simply use tap water with a hint of trace elements?

 

[Hermithall]

I would say your tap water is perfect for mbuna! Rifties in Cornwall would prob kill for it lol

From malawimayhem.com :

GH (General Hardness)

General hardness or “total hardness” is a measure of the magnesium and calcium in the water. Africans are most likely to appear vibrant and colorful in aquariums with a general hardness ranging from 160 – 320 ppm (parts per million) or 9° – 18° DH (“Deutsch hardness”). Because DH values refer to a German hardness scale, I have heard GH mistakenly referred to as “German hardness” which is incorrect. This is a mix-up between the particular water property being measured and the scale on which the result is expressed. There is also a “Clark scale,” but since I am not personally familiar with it and don’t know how widely it is used I chose not to calculate the target range using that scale. Examine your test kit carefully so that you are certain what scale it uses. The following conversion table may be helpful:

1° DH = .65° Clark = 17.9 ppm

It should be noted that GH levels naturally drop over time because minerals do not stay suspended in water very long. This is one of many good reasons for regular partial water changes.

KH (Carbonate Hardness)

Carbonate hardness, also known as “buffering capacity” or “total alkalinity,” is a measurement of carbonates and bicarbonates in the water. It is best described as water’s ability to keep the pH stable as acids or bases are added – almost acting like a sponge for those additives so they cannot affect the pH. Without adequate buffering, the pH in your aquarium will eventually drop because the end result of the nitrogen cycle is nitrate (nitric acid), which slowly builds up between water changes. With sufficient buffering the pH remains stable. For a Rift Lake aquarium, KH is ideally in the range of 180 – 240 ppm, or 10° – 14° DH.

 

[Blubble37]

can water be too hard.....

punch it... if it hurts then you know!

 

[saz326]

can water be too hard.....

punch it... if it hurts then you know!

... yeah yeah, a truely useful comment


So my pH is at a stable 8 now that I am using an alkali buffer (tap water pH around 7.5), this buffer is increasing the KH as well so I am happy that the KH is acceptable at around 18

I guess the last question - The salts and dissolved solids in the Malawi system are probably not the same as is coming out of my tap - so If I add the cichlid lake salts, and bring the levels of these macronutrients and salts up to Mbuna standards, is the total water hardness going to do any harm? Would it buffer itself out at 18 with the excess salts staying solid and only those not present in my tapwater coming out into solution?

...any chemists around?

 

[Blubble37]

can water be too hard.....

punch it... if it hurts then you know!

... yeah yeah, a truely useful comment

but oh so true

...any chemists around?

Nurglespuss?

 

[saz326]

Have sent a begging letter to Nurglespuss... Hopefully the question may be answered.

 

[Squidward]

I am also in Hertfordshire.
You certainly don't need RO water that needs remineralizing!
Perfect water for Malawis when I had them....now that I want Discus, less so

Have you tested the tap water yourself?
I contact the water company and asked them what the various readings were (GH, KH and PH).
When I tested it myself I found that it was slightly (by about 2dH) softer and also, less alkaline.

 

[synodontismultipunctatus]

can water be too hard.....

punch it... if it hurts then you know!

Punch it and if your hand comes out with limescale on it

 

[nurglespuss]

Hello all,

Thanks for the message for my humble opinion! I'm not a pure chemist as such, and don't keep Mbuna, but, from the sound of it water (as is) from the tap is already 'almost there' in terms of basic chemistry. With the addition of pH buffers (ideally a range of 8-8.4), and the pre requisite salts should keep the fish in excellent health.

So, in my opinion -

Your local tapwater is fine, and you could 'keep' Mbuna just in that, but they wouldn't shine and health might be harder to maintain.

Add the salts, and then buffer the pH to 8-8.4.

Finally, can you get a sample of the water they are currently held in?

Also, stripping water via reverse osmosis is very rarely worth it, when you add all the elements back to create the conditions you desire is hell of a lot of hard work!

I hope that helps confirm your own, perfectly good opinions.

 

[saz326]

Oh I certainly wouldnt use RO. Not for them anyway. I do dilute my tapwater down in RO for my Amazon community set-up but NOT for the Mbuna.

The tank is up and running with some happy chappies in it.

Tap water GH is between 16 and 18. KH is around 15 to 17.

Problem I have is that the tap water pH is around 7.5. In order to increase the pH to a nice 8.5 -ish I need to add buffers which brings both the GH and KH up to around 18. I am hoping that the KH cannot be too high. Else I may be in for issues down the line.

 

[onidrase]

your water is too hard when you need to cut through it with a saw in order to get to your fish

 

[Dieses Madchen]

can water be too hard.....

punch it... if it hurts then you know!

I punched mine and it cracked. but the mbuna seem to like it

 

[Blubble37]

what the glass or the water? sometimes i cant tell the differnce it's so clear lol

your water is too hard when you need to cut through it with a saw in order to get to your fish

or get chuck norris