Can Corrys Hybridize?

[Gazo]

Amen brother

 

[ShoC]

Hiya,

I am very new to these I have Bronze and Albino Corydoras aeneus
and Believe I have a Female, has a large bump a bit futher back from the mouth,
is this a build up of eggs? and is constantly being chased by the others whom I believe are male!!

will I most likely have a spawn? I have had them a week now and are very active, and would love ot induce spawning..

anyone have pictures of an albino/bronze cross??

 

[stiffler69]

Nice thread didnt realise they could hybridize but obviously they can.

I have c aenues albinos, and some blacks who were advertised as venezuelans but i think they are the same as the albinos, id love to get a little tuxedo cory going half black and half albino.

You know you would all be lining up to bag a couple lol.

But i think a little more info in this topic would be great so keep it coming

 

[Gazo]

id love to get a little tuxedo cory going half black and half albino.

It would never happen mate. the whole point with Albino is that it is a genetic defect whereby all pigmentation has been removed from its DNA. Every creature can have this defect, but you either have it or you dont, its just not possible to be half Albino!

 

[pastabake]

If they can breed together and produce viable fertile offspring then why not? If they produce infertile offspring then no harm done. They only small cause for concern is when cross breeding produces something like pedigree dogs which are genetically weak and prone to all sorts of painful disabilities. Being that it can be shown that many tank bred species are now less hardy than their wild caught counter parts I don't think that the nay sayers have a leg to stand on.

Its not like fish keeping has anything to do with conservation value - especially as many species are still wild caught!

I'm off to get myself some more corys

 

[jollysue]

Albino, pastabake and stiffler, are not species. They are variations of a species. (Personally, I would not call it a defect, either, Gazo. Call me excessively PC--politically correct. For if albinism is a defect, then humans with albinism are defective!) "Albinism results from inherited recessive alleles." (Wikipedia) Albinism can be total or partial--such as only the eyes being affected. The condition is caused by a lack of melanin pigment in the eyes, skin, hair, fur, scales, etc. There are albino fish with blue eyes rather than pink eyes. (The pink eyes are the result of the lack of melanin pigment in the eyes.) This would be a form of partial albinism, I would imagine.

There are albino C. sterbai, C. aeneus, C. paleatus, C. panda and no doubt others. This condition does occur in the wild. It is a recessive inheritance.

I keep my albino peppers/C.paleatus together with my regular colored peppers. They breed together. So far no tuxedos!

So my conclusion, if an albino C. aeneus spawns with a regular colored C. aeneus, the resulting fry are not hybrids.

Is my green Toyota Prius hybrid a mistake? hehe

This subject has engendered some very enthusiastic opinions. People even get rabidly opinionated. For me it is a personal choice to have hybrids or to breed for certain characteristics. As a descendant of farmers and ranchers, I have no problem with either.

But I do believe that fish that are sold should be clearly labeled. I would hate to spend a large sum on a fish I thought was a longipinnus only to find I had bought a pepper/longipinnus mix which was not suitable for breeding. This by the way is happening. Why? you ask? Because longipinnus Corys were captured and unknowingly mixed with paleatus Corys in breeding farms in China. Thus a new form or variety of Cory is in the lps. Will the real Pepper please stand up?

Ian Fuller has an article: "Will the Real Aeneus Please Stand Up?" It seems clear to me that it happens, both in the wild and in the aquarium.

 

[Gazo]

Albino, pastabake and stiffler, are not species. They are variations of a species. (Personally, I would not call it a defect, either, Gazo. Call me excessively PC--politically correct. For if albinism is a defect, then humans with albinism are defective!) "Albinism results from inherited ressesive alleles." (Wikipedia) Albinism can be total or partial--such as only the eyes being affected. The condition is caused by a lack of melanin pigment in the eyes, skin, hair, fur, scales, etc. There are albino fish with blue eyes rather than pink eyes. (The pink eyes are the result of the lack of melanin pigment in the eyes.) This would be a form of partial albinism, I would imagine.

Point is that you cant have a half black/albino or half albino anything!! Albino is a defect I'm afraid. I hate PC - grrr

 

[jollysue]

Fact or opinion? My fair skin which burns and freckles is then a defect compared to black skin by your logic, it seems to me. Albinism is genetic. By what standard do you call it a defect? Is black skin a defect? Are short legs a defect? What is the criteria for a genetic defect. A gene for cancer may well be thought a defect today and found to be useful tomorrow. Such is the case for the appendix. I still have mine, btw. Very few from the '40's do. But now the appendix is no longer considered an evolutionary vestige that is disposable

As to the tuxedo issue--You just said it shorter.

I knew I should avoid this thread. I am melting...melting....

 

[Gazo]

Fact or opinion? My fair skin which burns and freckles is then a defect compared to black skin by your logic, it seems to me. Albinism is genetic. By what standard do you call it a defect? Is black skin a defect? Are short legs a defect? What is the criteria for a genetic defect. A gene for cancer may well be thought a defect today and found to be useful tomorrow. Such is the case for the appendex. I still have mine, btw. Very few from the '40's do. But now the appendex is no longer considered an evolutionary vestige that is disposable

Fact!
Fair skin and freckles isn't a defect, now you're being silly.
Genetics - exactly, a deformity in the genetic structure. THIS IS SCIENCE!!!
Black skin isn't a deformity, now you're being very silly.
Short legs?

This is a debate that will rumble on for years and years Sue, I think we just have to learn to accept that everyone will have their own opinions and views on this based on the way they have been brought up, influences and general individuality.

LONG LIVE ALBINOS

 

[jollysue]

Fact or opinion? My fair skin which burns and freckles is then a defect compared to black skin by your logic, it seems to me. Albinism is genetic. By what standard do you call it a defect? Is black skin a defect? Are short legs a defect? What is the criteria for a genetic defect. A gene for cancer may well be thought a defect today and found to be useful tomorrow. Such is the case for the appendex. I still have mine, btw. Very few from the '40's do. But now the appendex is no longer considered an evolutionary vestige that is disposable

Fact!
Fair skin and freckles isn't a defect, now you're being silly.
Genetics - exactly, a deformity in the genetic structure. THIS IS SCIENCE!!!
Black skin isn't a deformity, now you're being very silly.
Short legs?

This is a debate that will rumble on for years and years Sue, I think we just have to learn to accept that everyone will have their own opinions and views on this based on the way they have been brought up, influences and general individuality. [Color added.]
LONG LIVE ALBINOS

Exactly! Opinions!

Albinism is just as genetic an inheritance as fair skin. It is not a deformity in genetic structure that I am aware of. Give your source. I assume you are trying to say that it is a mutation. Again, state your source. Otherwise it is just a personal value judgement. Not that value judgements are not worthwhile, but they are not fact or science.

I don't think calling names like silly is a way to learn, teach or have discussions. (I am not offended, Gazo.) It does not edify. That is why I usually stay away from these threads now. People get too emotional and can't learn. I have already learned new information. But I learned it by doing reseach for you and those with incomplete information about albinism--including myself.

We do agree that stiffler will not have any tuxedo fry! And that everyone has an opinion. But I would add that not everyone has the facts or the science--perhaps not me either. We also apparently agree that people see it differently and it is a matter of personal choice--or did you say that?

 

[Gazo]

How about GENETIC MUTATION?

 

[jollysue]

State your source that it is a genetic mutation. You may be correct, but saying it is so does not make it so--or prove it.

 

[Gazo]

Wikipedia!!!

Why to I have to state my source?!?!? This isn't some kind of school essay where I'm going to get done for plagerism lol

I don't just mindlessly state my case. I have a pretty good knowledge of a hell of a lot of subjects, so not all of it can be sourced anyway apart from in my head. I blame public school hehe

 

[jollysue]

This is again from Wikipedia. Not a great source but useful.

Misconceptions
While some of the very rare albinism disorders that are coupled with deafness and immunodeficiency appear to be linked with inbreeding,[2] the vast majority of sufferers of common albinism are not the product of such unions; the more usual albinism genes are widespread enough that they can easily produce albinistic offspring from parents that are not related.

A common misconception is that albinistic individuals of a species are sterile; they are in fact fully capable of reproducing. It is also thought by many that people with albinism live short life spans. This is not true in general, but may be a distorted view of a more reasonable fact that people with albinism have a higher risk of skin cancer if they do not use proper skin protection when in the sun. (Some very rare variants of albinism are lethal by adulthood or sooner, but they are so little-known by the general public that they are unlikely to have contributed to this belief.)

It has also been misunderstood that a person or other animal with albinism will become blind halfway through life; this is incorrect. [end quote]
[source article here]


Saying it is a mutation does not make it so. You are make blanket statements as fact which are not fact from what I can see.

Sorry, I thought we we trying to learn something here, not just argue.

 

[Gazo]

You jumped on my post if I remember correctly?!? The insistance that things be sourced and that my knowledge has to be verified is ridiculous. I'm not a teacher, I have been taught and gained my knowledge through various other methods too - how and where is not something I can instantly remember as I'm not a computer. Most of it will be from school as I was very well educated, but I cannot remember the books I studied from and I'm certainly not going to try and find info out just to please those who don't agree with me.

I could ask you to source everything that states what I've put on here isn't true, but I know you cant, so I haven't!

Its been fun, but I must end this until my next post.