Calling all water experts!!! Please help!

[Rory the cat]

Hi guys

Been posting about my water problems for a while now. Basically -

16 gal tank - 1 SA Puffer, temp 29c, IPE duo3 filter with polywool (on highest setting - 143 gal/hr), large airstone

PH 8, Amm 0.2, NO2 0.1, NO3 50

20 gal community tank - stocked as listed in my sig, temp 27c, 201 powerfilter undergravel filter (on highest setting) with polywool attached to outlet pipe, plus tea bag clearwater filter. Undergravel filter has an air filter attached that is on highest setting.

PH 8, Amm 0.05, NO2 0.3, NO3 25 - 50

The 20 gal has only been established one week (was an emergency). Used water, decs, gravel & plants pinched from 16 gal and a friend's established tank. Have been doing 10l (so 10 - 15%) water changes with treated dechlorinated water every other day for about a month on the 16 gal and all week on the 20 gal.

I add 20ml stress zyme daily to both tanks. I feed Puff every day (only as much as he can eat and scoop out any remaining - tho he usually eats the lot and hunts for any debris for an hour afterwards ) and the community tank gets a tiny pinch of flake (they eat it all within a minute) or a small portion of daphnia (again gone within a minute) every other day. There is nothing dead in the tanks, fish, plants or otherwise. The water is crystal clear, the gravel etc are clean (hoovered weekly). There is no algae growing anywhere whatsoever.

These water reading are not changing. They are staying the same (or very near abouts) constantly.

I think the problem is my tap water - once dechlorinated it comes out at -

PH8, Amm 0.4, NO2 trace, NO3 75.

I've tried r/o water but it's impractical to get it from the LFS every day, so I am stuck with treated tap water.

Thing is - should I be doing daily/every other day water changes, given the perameters of my tap water, or should I be doing weekly changes and letting the filters do the rest? Is there anything else I can add?

The only time I have had 0 amm & no2 was when I was using NitriVec as advised by the LFS, but as soon as I stopped using it the values returned. I don't like using chemicals, if it can be avoided. Thing is I have one LFS who try to sell you EVERYTHING under the sun, and another (whom I prefer) who are more interested in giving you practical advice than selling products. They have even told me to put products back that they say don't work.

My fish seem in very rude health, brilliant colours, very active during the day and resting at night. Had a short outbreak of ICH on Puff that I was able to deal with using one dose of medicine, a small dose of aquarium salt and turning up the temp on the tank. It didn't spread to any of the other fish (who were still in with him at the time). The fish whose fins he shredded are even doing well and the fins are repairing really really well (dosing with stress-coat every few days).

Should I just accept these less than perfect water readings - or should/could I be doing more?

Sorry to keep on about this, but I am at my wits end with this one. I have been to both LFS to chat about it and even they can't see what else I can do.

 

[Cian McLiam]

If your tap water is pH 8 and the fish are in good health in this, I wouldnt try changing it unless you want to invest in your own RO unit. The ammonia and nitrite issue is far more important, so keep doing regular water changes with treated tap water and a dechlorinator that also covers chloramines which could be the cause of the ammonia readings. Leave it standing for two days with an airstone in the bucket.
The nitrate is a sticky issue, you may do ok with a level of 75 but you mioght want to consider investing in an RO unit or a de-ionizing unit (though the initial cost is less than an RO, the cartridges add up making this a false economy). You could also look at one of the under counter tap water filters that provide clean water to a seperate tap installed on your sink, the benifits of having cleaner drinking water might soften the blow of investing money into clean water for your fish!

I use my RO for drinking water too, but its slow and awkward, but its removed the cost of thoise little jug filters we used to use!

Ken

 

[Rory the cat]

keep doing regular water changes with treated tap water and a dechlorinator that also covers chloramines which could be the cause of the ammonia readings. Leave it standing for two days with an airstone in the bucket.

Now there's a good point - I use Tetra AquaSafe and it says nothing about Chloramine! I'll try using stress coat as a dechlorinator (as it says it gets rid of chloramine) and see where that gets me for the next week or so.

If not I'll try the airstone idea. The problem I have is that myself & hubby share a house with his brother - so I need to be careful not to allow my hobby to take over the front room (I've already comandeered one wall with my tanks!) So far hubby & bro-in-law are being very understanding (if taking the mick a bit), but if I start storing buckets of water about the place this will change rapidly .

 

[Rory the cat]

Been thinking - I've got a spare filter. If I put some polywool in this and set it up in a bucket of dechlorinated/dechloramined water, would this help/do the same job as an airstone??

 

[thecichlidaddict]

Instead of guessing, call your water company and ask for a read-out. It will give you everything you need to know about your water, including whether or not they use chloromines.

Aerating water will not get rid of chloromines. The point of them in the first place is that they are much more stable then chlorine, and simple disturbance of the water will not get rid of it. Dechlorinators are effective and instantanious, and IMO there is no reason to age water before adding to the tank, and it won't help with your problem.

R/O filtration would most certainly be your best bet, and it would certainly be easier and cheaper in the long run to do it in-house then to buy it from the lfs.

 

[Rory the cat]

TCA - would a decholorinator that gets rid of chloramines (ie stress-coat) work?

The local water company deny adding chloramine to the water, but the LFS told me that they know that they definitely ARE adding it!

 

[Cian McLiam]

If it says it detoxifies chloramines, then it should be ok.

and IMO there is no reason to age water before adding to the tank, and it won't help with your problem.

It was always my impression that ageing and aerating improved the quality of the water by forcing out dissolved gasses, such as CO2, Ammonia, Sulphur etc and making it oxygen rich. All those gas bubbles on the side of the holding container could be nasties that have fallen out of solution and that could have gone straight into the tank.

Ken

 

[Rory the cat]

Right then - I'm doing an experiment. Have set up a 10l bucket in the hall (hubby & bro in law think I am insane now!) have covered loosely with lid and popped in spare filter. have added 10l stress-coated water.

Let's see where this gets us. I've run out of test tablets, but will get more tomorrow and see if the water quality is any better using this method.

Will report my findings.

 

[Sky042]

If it says it detoxifies chloramines, then it should be ok.

and IMO there is no reason to age water before adding to the tank, and it won't help with your problem.

It was always my impression that ageing and aerating improved the quality of the water by forcing out dissolved gasses, such as CO2, Ammonia, Sulphur etc and making it oxygen rich. All those gas bubbles on the side of the holding container could be nasties that have fallen out of solution and that could have gone straight into the tank.

Ken

You need a certain ammount of suspended CO2 in your tank water anyway. As far as ammonia if you test your tap water for ammonia and it's negative then there isn't a need to let that age out either. Plus most tap water conditioners like the stuff I use from jungle labs detoxitfies heavy metals so ageing the water doesn't accomplish much of anything. It's a practice left over from when there was as many good products out there to properly condition the water because aquatic chemistry hadn't adapted to the hobby yet.

 

[aja71]

Hi there, I think I am getting in late on this, not sure, I am new to this forum.
The Stress Coat will neutralize your heavy metals and chloramine and remove the chlorine from the water. I am not sure of the conversion but i use 1 tsp to 10 gallon as recommended.
I am concerned with the dumping in of Strezz Zyme everyday? Why are you doing this and how long have you been doing this?
Also even with adding media to your tank from another persons tank you will still have to go through a bit of a cycle
I wish i knew a bit of history to try to help you. sounds like you may be stressed, as well as the fish!!! Angel

 

[Rory the cat]

I am concerned with the dumping in of Strezz Zyme everyday? Why are you doing this and how long have you been doing this?
Also even with adding media to your tank from another persons tank you will still have to go through a bit of a cycle
I wish i knew a bit of history to try to help you. sounds like you may be stressed, as well as the fish!!! Angel

As far as the Stress Zyme goes I have been putting that in because both of the LFS I go to recommended it to help the breakdown of amm & nitrite. Plus they said it would speed up the development of the bacteria in the 20 gal tank. Have been doing this about 2 weeks.

Potted history - the 16 gal has been established about 5 yrs, had been neglected for the past year until I 'inherited' it in March. Got the water levels to 0 amm & nitrate - but this was using NitriVec and I think this was a false reading.

There was 1 serpae, 1 glo-light, 1 scissortail and 1 harlequin in the tank. Once I got the water right down I bought 1 SA Puffer, 2 Albino Coreys (for bottom cleaning), 5 jumbo neons (to shoal w/harlequin & glo-light).

After 2 weeks the Puffer was becoming so nippy and bullying EVERYTHING, so I set up the 20 gal, had planned to allow it to cycle. 3 days later Puff went into a feeding frenzy & killed the Harlequin & tried to get the others, so into the 20 gal they all went.

This is where I am now - 2 lightly stocked tanks, with real water problems! I am sure it must be down to the tap water as I am doing everything right. If I am getting identical readings after 50% water changes (as I did today) it must be the water I am adding. The only time I have managed toi make a real dent in it was when I was using R/O from the LFS - but I can't do that indefinitely.

I would love any advice you can give Angel

 

[Rory the cat]

Water test results -

just tapwater
Amm 0.4, NitrAte 75

tapwater treated with stress-coat & left to stand overnight with aeration
Amm 0.1, NitrAte 10

tapwater treated with stress-coat and left to stand 10 minutes
Amm 0.1, NitrAte 10.

tapwater treated with Aquasafe & left to stand 10 mins
Amm 0.3, NitrAte between 25 - 50

Okay - the AquaSafe is in the bin, StressCoat obviously suits my water better. No difference between the 2 standing times (can't check nitrIte as running low on test tablets, LFS are out of stock and so want to keep what I have left for the actual tanks. Only trace of nitrIte in tap water anyway).

Shall be doing daily 10l water changes for the next week using stress-coat treated tapwater (stood for 10 mins) and see where that gets me. Will continue with the Stress-Zyme, and have also resorted to a treatment of Nitrivec in each tank today to get things going.

Oh who said fish keeping was a relaxing hobby?? This kept me awake worrying most of last night

 

[superpenguin22]

Water test results -

just tapwater
Amm 0.4, NitrAte 75

tapwater treated with stress-coat & left to stand overnight with aeration
Amm 0.1, NitrAte 10

tapwater treated with stress-coat and left to stand 10 minutes
Amm 0.1, NitrAte 10.

tapwater treated with Aquasafe & left to stand 10 mins
Amm 0.3, NitrAte between 25 - 50

Okay - the AquaSafe is in the bin, StressCoat obviously suits my water better. No difference between the 2 standing times (can't check nitrIte as running low on test tablets, LFS are out of stock and so want to keep what I have left for the actual tanks. Only trace of nitrIte in tap water anyway).

Shall be doing daily 10l water changes for the next week using stress-coat treated tapwater (stood for 10 mins) and see where that gets me. Will continue with the Stress-Zyme, and have also resorted to a treatment of Nitrivec in each tank today to get things going.

Oh who said fish keeping was a relaxing hobby?? This kept me awake worrying most of last night

i suggest using amquel or novaqua made by Kordon in additon to stresscoat also if you want to get EVERYTHING out of the water use white diamond chloramine elimator activated carbon.
good luck

 

[atkinspa]

I have just had a look at the Tetra web site, and Aquasafe according to Tetra does remove chloramine.
I just thought i would check, as my local water company uses chloramine in their water supply. I have been using Aquasafe now for two months with no problems, and the thank has now cycled with all fish alive and hope well.