Bristlenose, Panda Cory and Sterbai Cory have white patches on face and body

[Justcat12]

Are you mixing up nitrites and nitrAtes here?
What test kit are you using?

Can you please test again, and give us the numbers for ammonia, nitrites, and nitrAtes.

I'd be very surprised if nitrAtes were zero in an well established tank, unless it was very heavily planted and filtered and was lightly stocked with fish with a low bioload.

Your tank has fish like an 8 year old pleco, those have a high bioload, and I can only see fake plants, so even with large weekly changes, I'd expect to see some number high than zero for nitrAtes in a fully cycled, long established tank.

So need to know test kit, and numbers for ammonia, nitrites, and nitrAtes. Plus whether you have any live plants.



Can you give numbers for the full usual stocking, please?
How many newts?
How many of each species of cory?


It's great that the Bristlenose, A Sterbai and one of the Pandas have reached those ages! Suggests you're doing something right.
Have they always been in this same 30g?
How many years has the tank been set up for?
Were there any new additions in the tank stocking recently that could have introduced disease?

How often are the water changes Weekly? Monthly? We need specific info in order to be able to help, sorry for all the questions! But the answers will help me rule in or rule out potential issues or diseases. When you say algae growing on the Hikari wafers, do the fish leave the wafers and they go fuzzy?

Because uneaten food rotting in the substrate can both cause ammonia spikes, and also introduce nasty bacteria and fungus to establish themselves in the tank and substrate.


Cories nose around in the substrate for food, and while they can usually do that on gravel without too many problems, it's a different matter if the gravel is dirty and they are exposed to the bacteria and fungal spores growing and thriving in the gravel. I also see that at least two cories are mostly affected on their noses. Increasing my suspicion that this is a tank maintenance issue, and potentially easily rectified.

Yes, I believe that could be part of what caused this.

How many?


Please please, be assured that this isn't a criticism of you!! I absolutely just want to help.

I suspect that this an long established tank for years, has worked fine for years, and over time, mulm, bacteria, detritus worms, and many other micro-beasties establish themselves in the tank. Most are harmless, many are helpful! But some can be harmful. And especially likely to establish themselves in a long established tank with a lot of mulm and detritus at the bottom of the tank, is heavily fed to make sure all these bottom feeders and the newts get enough food, but a lot gets uneaten and works it's way down through the gravel. Then is stirred up by these bottom feeders trying to reach the food and being more closely exposed to these potentially nasty bacteria, funguses and pathogens by the nature of being close to and feeding on and digging into the substrate.

Long established tanks with only 25% water changes that are maybe not done as often as they used to be, and with a high bioload and no live plants, and likely to gradually build up higher and higher levels of nitrAtes. This doesn't cause visible issues for a long time, since it's not so toxic to fish at lower levels. And since it's only building gradually, fish will do their best to cope with it for as long as they can, it just stresses them if it's too high, for too long, and eventually hits a tipping point.

But the high stress lowers immune systems, and leaves them more vulnerable to other stresses, and to secondary infections. Harder for them to fight off bad bacteria or heal a wound and fight off fungal infections, if they're also stressed by high nitrates, and digging into dirty substrate.

These photos tell me a few things, and raise another question:

View attachment 337570




Do you, @Justcat12 or anyone else like @Seisage @WhistlingBadger @Colin_T @DoubleDutch know what these are? They look like worms to me. maybe tubifex (do you feed the fish/newts tubifex worms?) or maybe a type a detritus worm. But says that the substrate needs more cleaning, and that there's an excess of rotting organic material that is causing an explosion in detritus worm populations, which is why they're reaching out of the substrate. Having detritus worms isn't harmful, they can even be beneficial, helping to break down that organic material and turn it into more harmless mulm. But they're usually hidden away in the substrate, so when they're climbing the glass or coming out of the substrate, it means there's been a population explosion in those worms, and the tank is being overfed, and/or under cleaned.

In this photo, the glass needs cleaning both inside and out. Remember that biofilm builds up inside the glass and makes it slimy. Generally harmless, and can provide food for some fish. But it's another thing that suggests not enough tank maintenance, and if there is a harmful pathogen, disease, bacteria, or fungus affecting the fish, then cleaning the glass and substrate, plus doing water changes with a gravel vac and thoroughly cleaning the tank and doing gradually increasing water changes, will reduce the amount of pathogens/bacteria/fungal spores/worm eggs etc in the tank. Then better chances the fish's immune system can fight off what pathogens etc remain.
View attachment 337571

Below the line I added to this photo where the gravel meets the glass shows that you're not gravel vacc-ing that deeply. The brown and black build up under the gravel is mulm, dirt, and organic matter and waste. Some of this is harmless, but this is a lot, and too much of it again, harbours all those potential nasties.

I think gradually working on deep cleaning the gravel, a bit at a time and systematically during bi-weekly water changes, removing and replacing more water each time, will show incredible results. And do more for the health of your tank and fish than any bottle of snake oil or medication can do.

I’m sorry my reply is late. Please, ask as many questions as you like. I find everything that is said helpful and I will do my best to answer your questions.

I used API Freshwater Master Test Kit.

I just tested the water now, tank is 75 degrees, Ammonia is 0, Nitrate is 0 and Nitrite is also 0.

My tank is 7 years old, I used to have real plants, but I don’t have a green thumb and I could never get them to stay in the soil that was underneath the gravel. So I stopped with the real plants and kept the fake plants.

I mostly do weekly water changes, but sometimes it doesn’t get done until 2 weeks. I always put Prime (half a capsule ) when I do water changes or add water and Gravel Clean in between water changes.

I have 3 Spanish Ribbed Newts (that are in a different tank while I am getting my fish healthy).

2 years ago, in July, my 11 year old YoYo Loach got some type of infection

 

[Justcat12]

Are you mixing up nitrites and nitrAtes here?
What test kit are you using?

Can you please test again, and give us the numbers for ammonia, nitrites, and nitrAtes.

I'd be very surprised if nitrAtes were zero in an well established tank, unless it was very heavily planted and filtered and was lightly stocked with fish with a low bioload.

Your tank has fish like an 8 year old pleco, those have a high bioload, and I can only see fake plants, so even with large weekly changes, I'd expect to see some number high than zero for nitrAtes in a fully cycled, long established tank.

So need to know test kit, and numbers for ammonia, nitrites, and nitrAtes. Plus whether you have any live plants.



Can you give numbers for the full usual stocking, please?
How many newts?
How many of each species of cory?


It's great that the Bristlenose, A Sterbai and one of the Pandas have reached those ages! Suggests you're doing something right.
Have they always been in this same 30g?
How many years has the tank been set up for?
Were there any new additions in the tank stocking recently that could have introduced disease?

How often are the water changes Weekly? Monthly? We need specific info in order to be able to help, sorry for all the questions! But the answers will help me rule in or rule out potential issues or diseases. When you say algae growing on the Hikari wafers, do the fish leave the wafers and they go fuzzy?

Because uneaten food rotting in the substrate can both cause ammonia spikes, and also introduce nasty bacteria and fungus to establish themselves in the tank and substrate.


Cories nose around in the substrate for food, and while they can usually do that on gravel without too many problems, it's a different matter if the gravel is dirty and they are exposed to the bacteria and fungal spores growing and thriving in the gravel. I also see that at least two cories are mostly affected on their noses. Increasing my suspicion that this is a tank maintenance issue, and potentially easily rectified.

Yes, I believe that could be part of what caused this.

How many?


Please please, be assured that this isn't a criticism of you!! I absolutely just want to help.

I suspect that this an long established tank for years, has worked fine for years, and over time, mulm, bacteria, detritus worms, and many other micro-beasties establish themselves in the tank. Most are harmless, many are helpful! But some can be harmful. And especially likely to establish themselves in a long established tank with a lot of mulm and detritus at the bottom of the tank, is heavily fed to make sure all these bottom feeders and the newts get enough food, but a lot gets uneaten and works it's way down through the gravel. Then is stirred up by these bottom feeders trying to reach the food and being more closely exposed to these potentially nasty bacteria, funguses and pathogens by the nature of being close to and feeding on and digging into the substrate.

Long established tanks with only 25% water changes that are maybe not done as often as they used to be, and with a high bioload and no live plants, and likely to gradually build up higher and higher levels of nitrAtes. This doesn't cause visible issues for a long time, since it's not so toxic to fish at lower levels. And since it's only building gradually, fish will do their best to cope with it for as long as they can, it just stresses them if it's too high, for too long, and eventually hits a tipping point.

But the high stress lowers immune systems, and leaves them more vulnerable to other stresses, and to secondary infections. Harder for them to fight off bad bacteria or heal a wound and fight off fungal infections, if they're also stressed by high nitrates, and digging into dirty substrate.

These photos tell me a few things, and raise another question:

View attachment 337570




Do you, @Justcat12 or anyone else like @Seisage @WhistlingBadger @Colin_T @DoubleDutch know what these are? They look like worms to me. maybe tubifex (do you feed the fish/newts tubifex worms?) or maybe a type a detritus worm. But says that the substrate needs more cleaning, and that there's an excess of rotting organic material that is causing an explosion in detritus worm populations, which is why they're reaching out of the substrate. Having detritus worms isn't harmful, they can even be beneficial, helping to break down that organic material and turn it into more harmless mulm. But they're usually hidden away in the substrate, so when they're climbing the glass or coming out of the substrate, it means there's been a population explosion in those worms, and the tank is being overfed, and/or under cleaned.

In this photo, the glass needs cleaning both inside and out. Remember that biofilm builds up inside the glass and makes it slimy. Generally harmless, and can provide food for some fish. But it's another thing that suggests not enough tank maintenance, and if there is a harmful pathogen, disease, bacteria, or fungus affecting the fish, then cleaning the glass and substrate, plus doing water changes with a gravel vac and thoroughly cleaning the tank and doing gradually increasing water changes, will reduce the amount of pathogens/bacteria/fungal spores/worm eggs etc in the tank. Then better chances the fish's immune system can fight off what pathogens etc remain.
View attachment 337571

Below the line I added to this photo where the gravel meets the glass shows that you're not gravel vacc-ing that deeply. The brown and black build up under the gravel is mulm, dirt, and organic matter and waste. Some of this is harmless, but this is a lot, and too much of it again, harbours all those potential nasties.

I think gradually working on deep cleaning the gravel, a bit at a time and systematically during bi-weekly water changes, removing and replacing more water each time, will show incredible results. And do more for the health of your tank and fish than any bottle of snake oil or medication can do.

Sorry for not replying sooner, crazy day.

I use API Freshwater Master Test Kit. I tested the water just now and Ammonia is 0, Nitrites is 0 and Nitrates are 0. Every time I do a water change or need to add water, I use Prime (half capful).

I have this tank fully cycled since July 2016. When I first set it up, I had live plants, but they kept floating to the top and my newts would eat them, which was fine, but it got expensive getting new ones. So I switched to fake plants.

I normally do weekly water changes, but sometimes I can’t do them for a week and a half, but I never skip weeks on end without a water change.

When I bought my Bristlenose, I was never told to feed him Veggies, just Hakari algae wafers. So that is what I have been feeding him along with California Black worms or frozen Brine shrimp, if I can’t get the black worms. I only give him 4-5 mini wafers.

Back in 2022, I lost my original Spanish Newt mating couple to a bacterial infection. I moved them to a different tank as soon as they showed signs, I did a major cleaning of the tank and my fish all seemed fine at first, but then I lost my 11 year old YoYo loach, 2 year old banjo cat and 7 year old flying fox.

I had once my tank was healthy my Bristle, 4 Cory’s, 3 scissor Tail Rasaboras and 1 Spanish Newt. A few months later, I got two Spanish Newts, because my 1 was lonely. The newts never bothered the fish and vice versa.

Since losing my two newts and fish 2 years ago, I haven’t added anything new to my tank. My tank was fine and everyone seemed happy and healthy.

I feed every other day and make sure it’s not over feeding, because I don’t want to lose anymore fish and newts.

I scrub the inside of the glass, but as you pointed out, it still felt slimy after scrubbing and scrubbing.

A couple weeks ago, I by accident gave 2-3 more algae wafers and now I have algae on the fake plants and all over my gravel. I clean the gravel but more algae appear.

It was after this, my fish started turning white.

On Thursday, I moved my newts to a different tank and started the Jungle Fungus Clear. They were getting better. They have less white, but yesterday I did the 25% water change and today my Bristle has a white film again and my Panda has white on the side of its face.

I have no idea what these two white spots are, they showed up last week.

I will do whatever it takes to save my fish. If I have to get rid of the fake plants and switch to live plants, I will. My poor Scissor Tail lost its two friends right before any fish had white. I know it needs lots of friends, but I can’t until my tank is healthy.
Thank you so much for helping me and if I missed any of your questions, let me know.

 

[DoubleDutch]

To me the worms look like detritus worms which points to uneaten food in the substrate as AB suggested. IMO most of the issues are caused by waterquality-issues caused by this and meds won't solve this on the longterm.

 

[Justcat12]

The worms are Blackworms. If it’s water quality, what do I do? Thanks!

 

[DoubleDutch]

The worms are Blackworms. If it’s water quality, what do I do? Thanks! My first advise would be to change substrate so food can't get out of reach and start decaying in it.

 

[Justcat12]

Ok, I will do that. I already plan on getting rid of the fake plants, because they are full of algae.

 

[rebe]

@Justcat12
If I were in your shoes, I'd change the substrate to a soft sand like play sand and change back to real plants. If you are struggling with plants floating up, then make sure you use 2-3 inches of sand/substrate. You can also use a plant weight, they're great if you're struggling to keep plants from floating up.
You could try some easy beginner plants that don't mind being floated if you're worried about looking after them.
Egeria densa or rotala rotundifolia are lovely beginner friendly plants, and both can be grown planted in the substrate, weighed down at the bottom of the tank, or floating in the water. I'd recommend some easy floating plants too, salvinia auriculata are my personal favourite. If you get plants, especially the ones I suggested, I'd recommend 7-10 hours of tank lights (white, if yours can change colours) and dosing Seachem flourish comprehensive supplement by the label instructions.

I highly recommend changing your substrate from gravel to a soft sand. Bottom dwellers and bottom feeders like corydoras need to be kept on a sand substrate. Gravel causes many issues for bottom dwellers, it can be too rough for their delicate barbels or bellies and it can host all sorts of bacterial issues. Some will literally rot the face of your corys. Sand will let the corys and any other bottom dwellers do their natural behaviours like filtering through the sand for food particles.
Sand substrate is easier to keep clean than gravel because any debris or old food will settle as a layer on the sand's surface instead of falling down into the gaps of the gravel. You won't need to clean it the same way or as much as gravel either. If a lot of debris or uneaten food builds up on top of the sand you can use a gravel vac just above the sand to suck up the debris without stirring up the sand. In smaller tanks you could use a turkey baster instead of a gravel vac.

Play sand is my preferred substrate. It's soft, cheap and usually a nice natural colour. You will need to give it a good rinse because it can be quite dirty when you buy it. But the money you will save versus buying "aquarium sand" is well worth it. For my first tank I used aquarium sand, which was about €60 for 8kg. I switched to play sand and it costs me €12 per 40kg.

 

[Lcc86]

I could be completely off but wanted to share an experience I had with gravel and cories, I was keeping my cories on gravel ages ago because I didn't do any research essentially and thought they'd be fine, I knew nothing about substrates at the time. They ended up with what looked like spots (that humans would get) on their faces. When I switched to sand they completely healed up. I'm not saying that that is definitely the cause of your issues but it could potentially be contributing. Even if you can't swap your entire substrate out you could try and make a large sandy area for them.

I also second the floating/easy plants.