bristlenose breeding and genetics.

[dhjaksu]

can anyone explain how long fin bristlenose genetics work?

friday night my 2 albino short fin males spawned with my common long fin female. then both males abandoned the eggs so I've had them in a breeding trap with an air stone and some shrimp.
My longfin female should have albino genetics as the previous owners got many albino babies from her before their male passed away. I have recently learnt that there are 2 different types of albino so I guess whether or not I get albino babies depends if she is the same type of albino as them or not.
but I dont really care about the albino stuff. I know at least 1 female has the same albino as the males because I saw a tiny albino baby a couple weeks ago. my other females are an albino and a calico. I never saw that baby or any others since but thats not surprising with the 6 angels and 6 kribensis all of which love baby fish.

anyway, its wednesday now and the albino x common long fin eggs are doing really well, you can now clearly see the little babies and even their eyes. there are at least 100 eggs, I will count them properly once they hatch.

I just want an explanation on how long fin genetics work and what possibilities there are for the babies. Also would like to know at what stage I should be able to tell if they are longfin or not. albino I should know within a few days of hatching but long fin I'm assuming I wouldn't know for a few weeks?

 

[SomethingsFishy24]

There is only one albino, true albino are yellow with pink/red eyes. If the other color morph these people are calling "albino", is in regards to lemon with blue eyes, those fish are not albino, they are Xanthic. Which share similar coloration but are not albino.

 

[dhjaksu]

There is only one albino, true albino are yellow with pink/red eyes. If the other color morph these people are calling "albino", is in regards to lemon with blue eyes, those fish are not albino, they are Xanthic. Which share similar coloration but are not albino.

ok, the way other people have explained it is that there are 2 different albinos that both look like albinos but when bred together produce all common fry. A lot of these people said there is no way to know what variation you have by looking at them, so like even with my fully albino males and the albino female you cant tell which of the 2 types they are. no one bought up lemon blue eyes at all but I have also never seen anyone refer to a lemon blue eye as an albino. I wish lemon blue eyes were as cheap as albinos

 

[SomethingsFishy24]

I get it, that is why I bring up Xanthics. They appear albino but truly are not. True albino will carry 2 recessive genes and you can only ever get albino fry. Xanthic have a gene that give them the pale color but if bred to a true albino, the dominant trait prevails, thus the fry are dark or mixed.

If your albino fish have pink/red eyes. I would assume they are true albino, this is how it was with my breeding pair and out of thousands of fry, all were albino. If their eyes are tan/brown/blue/silver anything but pink or red, that fish is a Xanthic and will likely throw dark fry even if bred to a true albino.

Now I lost my albino female and replaced her with a lemon, all the fry between her and my albino male are darker in color, but not quite common brown. They have copper colored eyes and have a "leopard" print to their pattern in greens and yellows. They are still small but I plan to keep a female from this batch as they are quite interesting in color.

As far as long fin, I would assume long fins are recessive as they are not the default fin setting. Your long fin would then be ff. Your other fish would have to be Ff to be able to get long fin fry. If the males are FF, the fry would all be Ff, having short fins but carrying the gene for long fins.(F is not the real fin gene letter, just used it as an example)This is difficult to know unless you were told what kind of finnage the parents/ grandparents/ ect. of your fish had.

 

[dhjaksu]

I get it, that is why I bring up Xanthics. They appear albino but truly are not. True albino will carry 2 recessive genes and you can only ever get albino fry. Xanthic have a gene that give them the pale color but if bred to a true albino, the dominant trait prevails, thus the fry are dark or mixed.

If your albino fish have pink/red eyes. I would assume they are true albino, this is how it was with my breeding pair and out of thousands of fry, all were albino. If their eyes are tan/brown/blue/silver anything but pink or red, that fish is a Xanthic and will likely throw dark fry even if bred to a true albino.

Now I lost my albino female and replaced her with a lemon, all the fry between her and my albino male are darker in color, but not quite common brown. They have copper colored eyes and have a "leopard" print to their pattern in greens and yellows. They are still small but I plan to keep a female from this batch as they are quite interesting in color.

As far as long fin, I would assume long fins are recessive as they are not the default fin setting. Your long fin would then be ff. Your other fish would have to be Ff to be able to get long fin fry. If the males are FF, the fry would all be Ff, having short fins but carrying the gene for long fins.(F is not the real fin gene letter, just used it as an example)This is difficult to know unless you were told what kind of finnage the parents/ grandparents/ ect. of your fish had.

all of my visual albinos are yellow with red eyes.

and most people seem to think long fin is dominant however I havent found and definite answer, there seems to be a lot of mixed opinions. and a few people also seem to think that there are multiple genes that work together in determining the fin length. I just cant find any straight answer or any proof of it being dominant or recessive but I think the majority of what I've found (that actually mentions the babies after they grow up) is of at least some babies always being long fin if at least 1 parent is long fin. the rest of them are like me asking what the babies are likely to be but not updating with what the babies actually turn out to be.

 

[SomethingsFishy24]

There are a lot of questions about genetics. I feel if it is default for the species, those genes are then dominant. Short finned and brown are standard model BN. Albinism exists in nature but is always recessive and extremely uncommon. However, there are also strange colors between base and albinism.

BN genetics have not been remotely studied, unlike angelfish, so it is difficult to say if these color morphs simply occurred through selective breeding, or if there has been something more done to morph these fish into what they are today. I would suspect any "albino" that does not bare pink eyes to be incomplete. Looking the part but not truly being an albino.

On that note, any dark colored fry from true albino parents should be questioned as far as environmental factors, mutations, contamination(by a xanthic or normal colored parent). As true albinos are true recessive.

 

[ghyti]

The Long fin gene is a dominate gene. That means that only one is required to express. It can be proved by mating a Standard fin (=/=) to a Long fin (Lf/+, or Lf/Lf). You will always get some Long fins proving its dominance. if it were recessive you would not get any long fins in the pairing.

 

[dhjaksu]

The Long fin gene is a dominate gene. That means that only one is required to express. It can be proved by mating a Standard fin (=/=) to a Long fin (Lf/+, or Lf/Lf). You will always get some Long fins proving its dominance. if it were recessive you would not get any long fins in the pairing.

Ok thanks. The eggs hatched yesterday afternoon and it looks like about 50/50 albino and common going by the eyes which. Ales sense with the dad being albino and Mum being a common carrying albino genetics.

Now I just have to wait a couple weeks to see how many inherit the long fins from Mum.

 

[DoubleDutch]

There is only one albino, true albino are yellow with pink/red eyes. If the other color morph these people are calling "albino", is in regards to lemon with blue eyes, those fish are not albino, they are Xanthic. Which share similar coloration but are not albino.

This isn't entirely correct. There are two different albinogens on different loci.
Causing the possible brown fry when two albinos breed. To get (only) albinos the same gen on the same locus is needed.

The Xantic one is a different story indeed

 

[dhjaksu]

This isn't entirely correct. There are two different albinogens on different loci.
Causing the possible brown fry when two albinos breed. To get (only) albinos the same gen on the same locus is needed.

The Xantic one is a different story indeed

Yeah that’s what I was thinking and what multiple people had told me.

Seems that my long fin female is carrying the same one as my males though because half of the babies have red eyes. In a few days I’ll be able to confirm that they are actually alininos, they only hatched yesterday.

 

[DoubleDutch]

Yeah that’s what I was thinking and what multiple people had told me.

Seems that my long fin female is carrying the same one as my female though because half of the babies have red eyes. In a few days I’ll be able to confirm that they are actually alininos, they only hatched yesterday.

Yeah must be.

I am not familiar with genetics of the longfins (cause I don't like longfins hahaha)

 

[dhjaksu]

Yeah must be.

I am not familiar with genetics of the longfins (cause I don't like longfins hahaha)

I really like long fins. They are just so pretty. Same as I like my 2 veiltail angels more than my 4 normal finned angels.
I like my female betta more than my long finned male though so I guess it depends on the type of fish.