Breeding/fry setup

[Colin_T]

The fact the boesemani hides while the duboulayi stay out in the open when you catch them has nothing to do with their offspring being sterile or fertile. If they are in the same genus, regardless of which country they come from, they can produce fertile offspring. I keep both of those species and had fertile offspring from them. I did a number of experiments when I was keeping rainbows including seeing if hybrids were fertile and hybrids from the same genus were. The hybrids were all killed after the experiments.

I'm also in Australia and specialised in native fishes and rainbowfishes for 20 years. I was in ANGFA National and ANGFA WA, as well as the Aquarium Society of WA and the Cichlid Society of WA. Most rainbowfish purists won't sell hybrids.

 

[Colin_T]

Ha I was at a fish fair and they had a clean infusoria culture so I bought it. Now I need to set up the 25 so it supports the infusoria culture but also has a sponge filter? Or just an air stone? Now I am co fused. Tips appreciated !

The link I put in post #3 has info about culturing infusoria. You want aeration (no airstone, just an airline bubbling away) but no filter otherwise you remove the bacteria that the infusoria feed on.

 

[MattW]

I remember watching a video that showed Gary Lang’s fishroom room. He has a very impressive collection of rainbows some of which I had never heard of or seen before. I also didn’t realise how some rainbow species have very similar looking females so multiple species tanks were a big no no for him in case of cross breeding. I think rainbows are beautiful as they are, so I’m not a big fan of hybrids but that isn’t everyone’s cup of tea.

 

[GaryE]

The species @Beastije has that I've bred are quite similar.

Poropanchax normani lays adhesive eggs in plants. They are larger than you might expect from a small fish. They'll spawn from 18c to 24c here, and the eggs hatch in about 2 weeks. I separate the sexes and feed them well, then recombine them in a tank with acrylic mops. I remove the mops daily and take out any eggs with wet fingers, into a separate container for incubation. I change the incubation water a couple of times over the 2 weeks.

Pseudomugils follow the same pattern here, and I consider them honorary killifish, even though they are unrelated. The eggs hatch quicker and both fish and eggs require warmer water for success here.

Both species employ single fertilization - each egg is fertilized individually and is at least partially hidden in plants (or a mop). This results in a low number of eggs each day during the breeding cycle, which can last a few weeks. If a normani female produces 5 eggs a day, that's good. It seems like very few, but over 10 days, it adds up. After 10 days though, older fry of most fish will begin to predate their younger siblings, so you might need a second rearing tank.

I can't comment on mango loaches, as I don't like loaches enough to go to the trouble of breeding them. I don't keep any. But the other two fish you have can be bred in a small tank like that.

A bare bottomed tank isn't necessary. But in a planted tank, it's harder to collect the eggs before the parents eat them. Small tanks lead to serious egg and fry eating at times, while in a larger tank, things work much better.

 

[AJ356]

Definitely don't have it bare bottom. That's not how fish should be living, including fry. Bogwood that has been in the water/subject to light is good, the fry will nibble on it, same for the substrate.

 

[GaryE]

I run bare glass tanks for egg scatterers with non adhesive eggs, like a lot of my tetras. But the adult fish are in there for a week, maximum, and usually for less. For spawning, I put grate structures so the eggs fall through and the adults can't feed on them. If you are going to use a small tank, you have to adapt your setup to the size.

Otherwise, I dislike bare tanks, and don't go that way.

 

[Darby T]

Theoretically that is true. When I first bred that hybrid, I got quite excited, thought I was on to something great. When breeding them failed, I started considering all the differences. One from New Guinea and one from Australia, from very different habitats, and displaying different behaviours in the aquarium. For instance, when catching them out of the tank the Dubalii stays out in the open and all but swims in to the net. By contrast the Bosemanii quickly go into hiding, which means that I almost have to wreck my setup to catch them. My statement that they are infertile may be proved wrong in the future, but purists would hope that I am right.
You are lucky in the U.S. in having Dans pet shop selling excellent Rainbows bred by Gary Lange. Perhaps a club member would like to try it one day?

The hybrid is the one top right.

The fact the boesemani hides while the duboulayi stay out in the open when you catch them has nothing to do with their offspring being sterile or fertile. If they are in the same genus, regardless of which country they come from, they can produce fertile offspring. I keep both of those species and had fertile offspring from them. I did a number of experiments when I was keeping rainbows including seeing if hybrids were fertile and hybrids from the same genus were. The hybrids were all killed after the experiments.

I'm also in Australia and specialised in native fishes and rainbowfishes for 20 years. I was in ANGFA National and ANGFA WA, as well as the Aquarium Society of WA and the Cichlid Society of WA. Most rainbowfish purists won't sell hybrids.

 

[Darby T]

Thanks Colin. I stand corrected. As you say fertile hybrids should not be part of our hobby, blurs the picture doesn't? A rethink is in order.

 

[Beastije]

No snails or shrimp of any sort in a breeding tank because they all go after eggs even if people say they don't.

Have an air operated sponge filter in the breeding tank to keep the water clean but not suck up eggs or sperm.

Have a thin layer of sand or gravel on the bottom of the tank.

Pseudomugils either spawn in the substrate or in plants. Have lots of fine leaf plants (Java Moss) and floating plants like Water Sprite.
Make sure the plants are free of snails and hydra.

Feed the adults well (3-5 times per day) and look for fry swimming at the surface. Use a plastic container to scoop any fry out and move them into a separate rearing tank.

When you gravel clean the substrate, let the water settle in a white bucket and look for eggs on the bottom of the bucket.

Do more frequent water changes when feeding more often.

Make sure the tank is covered to stop the adults jumping out.

There's more info at the following link, along with culturing live food for baby fish.

Back to Basics when Breeding Fish

STARTING OUT Make sure you have a pair, (1 male + 1 female). There is nothing worse than spending your hard-earned dollars buying a couple of fish to try and breed and ending up with a pair of fish of the same sex. Let's face it, to reproduce fish you need a male and a female. Two males won't do...

www.fishforums.net

Why are there so many conflicting information on paramecium culturing? I saw like 5 youtube videos, read your article and four others, and each mentions different method?

I bought a clean culture, for now it is in a smaller glass with boiled over water and few drops of activated yeast, so it wont starve, but I also read about a closed dark bucket with oak leaves, java moss method, aeration, no aeration, feeding pedigree dog food. Like so many...!

 

[Colin_T]

There's a number of ways to make infusoria for fish food. Most involve having plant matter that breaks down and feeds bacteria, which feed the paramecium (infusoria). Avoid using meat in water, it gets real nasty real fast.

You need aeration in an infusoria culture otherwise the rotting plant matter will turn anaerobic and you get a filthy stinking black mess that makes your eyes water and you regularly throw up while in its presence. The aeration keeps the oxygen level up and stops the culture going anaerobic and turning black. And the entire culture will turn black without aeration. You get black glass, black substrate (if there's any), the water goes black. It's just disgusting. So you have to have aeration in the culture.

Some people feed them yeast, and bacteria eat the yeast, and paramecium eat the bacteria. Too much yeast can foul the water and turn the culture anaerobic too.

You can use any non-toxic plant matter to make a culture. Leaves from deciduous trees (oak, plane trees, etc) are fine, but you can also use dry grass clippings from mowing the lawn, lettuce, cabbage or spinach leaves. Basically any sort of plant matter that isn't poisonous. I use lettuce because they are cheap, readily available in any country, and they break down quickly (especially if they are cut up or shredded before being put in the culture container).

My version of an infusoria culture will give you a clean pure culture of paramecium and there won't be any harmful disease organisms in the culture, unlike cultures made from old aquarium water. Most harmful aquarium fish diseases live in the water and substrate and using water from an aquarium and gunk from the substrate of an aquarium, will significantly increase the chance of harmful fish pathogens growing in the infusoria culture.