Breaking the biotope...

[Wills]

I've been doing a bit of reading/ research this morning and Ive come across a few other species that I quite like.

These are - Belonesox belizanus the Pike Topminnow livebearer which I was thinking could be a useful tank mate in a tank of livebearers and cichlids that could potentially form regular pairs... bit brutal but quite natural IMO. I dont know much about these so need to read much more before I make a decsion.

And the other thing that I am thinking of... Ive seen a great tank that is keeping a group of P.Panamesis (formerly cryptoheros) with a pair of H.Tamasopoensis. Now Im not thinking of the Tamasopoensis but I have always loved H.Deppi, they are often said to be the smallest Hericthys (6-8 inches) and through annecdotal reading the post peaceful. Would this be a viable mix to mimic this tank with a mix of a group of C.Nanoleutus and a pair of H.Deppi?

Also I am now on the side of not getting bottom dwellers... really like the Syno Polli 'White Zambia' but you are right in most successful CA tanks you see, there is an obvious lack of bottom dwellers and I imagine as you said this is for good reasons...

Thanks so much for all the help so far on this from my water to stocking, Im having a lot of long held views challenged and I think the decisions that come from that will help be hugely in the future! I feel I have learned a lot in the past few weeks from the prompts here and the level of input I have picked up generally.

Thanks again,
Wills

 

[hobby5]

Glad you like the input. Yeah, many of those cichlids have been renamed. I have some experience with the more common Central American cichlids, but by no means would call myself an expert. And I know there are many species out there I have never seen in reality nor have I ever heard of. One is Rheoheros coeruleus Many of the cichlids can live with quite some current and if you provide places with less current behind large stones or some wood, it should be no problem. The R. coeruleus seem to have a somewhat specialist diet, I would take this into consideration.

No experience here with Herichthys deppi. But I would expect them to dominate the tank easily.

Also no experience with Belonesox belizanus. You will find out if they are robust enough to survive together with those cichlids. But it might well be that they don't see them much if they stay close to the surface all time.

Again, I have no real experience with single sex groups of cichlids, because this never interested me. But from what I have heard single males can be more peaceful than females, but yes they usually get larger.

There is an orange colour morph of the rainbows. Maybe you like them more, hard to find though.

Hopefully someone else can add more input.

 

[Wills]

Thanks yes definitly taking all on board!

For the R.Coerleus when you say specialist diet, what sort of food is it? I've not come across that so far, one thing is for sure they need pristine water so I definitely need to get set up with my water filter tap before I even consider them.

I think Im going to try and track down some Belonesox belizanus as I think they will work, I dont mind them staying at the surface. Im going to try some floating plants for them as well, I have an area in the tank now that may help them stay still in the current.

I'm going to look into the Deppi a bit more, from what I have read (not always the best rule of thumb) they are not comparable to the other Texas types in the group. Im going to try and speak to people that have kept them as well and weigh up peoples experiences and thoughts.

Wills

 

[Wills]

I need a bit of help - I have been looking into the nitrate filter tap that I was recommended and I have found out there is a chance it could alter my ph. I spoke to their helpline and while most of the science went a bit over my head I think the basics of it was that the ph mainly changes if the water is soft. I believe my water is 19dGH which makes it quite hard. My current ph is 7.1 - from what I have heard the filter can lower it slightly, the person on the helpline said its only a slight change like a drop of 0.1-0.2 difference.

Im not sure how best to transition the tank once the tap is here if this is a risk? Would it be worth putting in some kind of rock, like limestone or the kind you get in African cichlid tanks to help keep the ph high or is that not a good idea either?

If anyone has any tips on how I can work out if it will affect my water and any tips on what to do in the scenario where it does alter my ph it would be much appreciated.

thanks Wills

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Do you have a link to that filter? Taking nitrates out alone shouldn't alter anything. But if it removes more minerals and such then it may alter hardness. Do you know the KH of your water? This 's the buffering capacity that keeps your pH stable. If it's high before and after the filter you won't have a problem with pH. Mine is around 13, never had a problem with pH being unstable even with tannins from wood in the water.

 

[Wills]

Hi sorry forgot to put the link https://www.pozzani.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=157&q=Twin

I believe it is a two stage filter so the first stage removes the nitrate and the second is a more conventional water filter

I don’t know my gh actually but my ph has been stable at 7.1 for over five years (when we moved into this house) and it’s had varying amounts of wood and plants in it in that time.

I was wondering about getting some sort of rock or substrate to help keep the tank at a higher ph like people do in African tanks? Do you think this could be a good idea?


Also as a general update I’m going to go for a stocking of Cryptoheros Nanolutus and Rheoheros Coerleus hoping for a small group of each and I’m getting a good power head to give them both the flow they like especially the Rheoheros. At the moment I’m planning for some wild type swords but need to look into other livebearers that will enjoy the higher flow in the tank

Thanks Wills

 

[Byron]

I don’t know my gh actually but my ph has been stable at 7.1 for over five years (when we moved into this house) and it’s had varying amounts of wood and plants in it in that time.

I was wondering about getting some sort of rock or substrate to help keep the tank at a higher ph like people do in African tanks? Do you think this could be a good idea?

You must ascertain the actual GH and KH of your source water before considering any sort of buffering. Mention was made earlier of hard-ish water, but a pH of 7.1 is low for that, another reason to sort out the GH and KH. The pH is not going to lower due to organics (wood, fish excrement, etc) if the GH and KH are on the high side.

 

[Wills]

Thanks Byron I’ll nip out and buy a full test kit tomorrow (maybe tonight if I can make it) and I’ll let you know - need to know this before I get the filter.

Thanks again Wills

*edit - I got to a shop tonight and they were sold out I'll have to wait until the otherside of the weekend now but I'll hold on before I order the filter tap

 

[Wills]

I've just been looking back on the filter site and Im wondering if this could be an option? https://www.pozzani.co.uk/product_info.php?products_id=185&q=nitrate I would just need a hose connector to my tap and run this in the middle to the buckets as I do now. If I did this I dont see why I couldnt use my mixer tap to get the water up to a reasonable temperature. I mean these must be used around the world and surely getting 20/21c out of a tap is not that unusual? I would need to dechlorinate still but Im ok with that.

Still waiting on my test kit, but if my Kh is going to mean the purifing filter will change the ph maybe this will be a safer option. And potentially easier if I can use a mixer tap with it.

Any thoughts on this?

thanks Wills

 

[hobby5]

I suppose this is working on similar principles as the other one. You should find out how often you have to regenerate or replace those filters. They will not work indefinitely.

A pH-change of 0.1-0.2 is nothing I would worry about at all and your fish will not mind either. But I agree with others, it would be good to know the actual KH.

 

[Wills]

I suppose this is working on similar principles as the other one. You should find out how often you have to regenerate or replace those filters. They will not work indefinitely.

A pH-change of 0.1-0.2 is nothing I would worry about at all and your fish will not mind either. But I agree with others, it would be good to know the actual KH.

Yes the filters need changing every 3 months - Im going to buy a bit of a supply up front and then bulk buy in the future. I should have my test kit tomorrow so will let you know the results

 

[Wills]

Ok so my water test kits came today, for the Gh test I got to 20 drops before the colour changed. On the conversion chart it only goes up to 12 and it goes 1 drop for 1 dKH - 12 converts to 214.8 ppm GH.

For the Kh I got to 13 and the test went from blue to green and on 14 drops it went yellow as expected. As I say the test chart provided only goes to 12 so I dont know how to interpret the results?

Please can someone help me out?

thanks Wills

 

[Wills]

Not sure if anyone has seen the above posts but would be great if I could get some tips.

I had managed to source a group of the Rheoheros Coerleus but unfortunately when they were due to be shipped they turned out to be too small so they didnt come through. But I think I may be able to get a group of Cryptoheros Nanoleutus quite soon. Im not sure on numbers just yet but will know soon.

I have also seen a group of Dwarf Hoplos in a local shop Lepthoplosternum Pectorale which come from Panama and so should do well in my hard water and I think should be a good tank mate for the Nanos.

Im currently looking for a good schooling fish as well that will do well in my tank - I have come across the Mayan Tetra - Hyphessobrycon Compressus which is found in Mexico. But I think this is going to be near impossible to find. Does anyone know of any other types of Hyphessobrycon that does well in hard water?

There are a few livebearers I am thinking of as well - I still want some Swordtails, hopefully some Montazuma or Greens. Given Im unlikely to get the Rheoheros I am thinking of the Top Pike Minnow as well. And maybe to round it off some kind of Goodied, I quite like Skiffia and I have found some on ebay that I could get from what I think is a breeder.

Let me know what you guys think

Wills

 

[hobby5]

Those hoplos are from Paraguay not Panama I really recommend to leave out the catfish. They will not have a happy live together with the cichlids.

I saw your post concerning the test, but didn't comment on it as I am not familiar with it. As far as I know 1 drop is °dH no matter if GH or KH. Those 20 for GH correspond well with you known value. If KH is 13 or 14 is not important, that is very hard. I would have expected to see a higher pH than 7 with such a high KH. How do you measure your pH? Or did you have anything in your tank which could have influenced it?

 

[Wills]

Hi thanks, hmmm I must have read the planet catfish article about 20 times in the past few days and I have misread it every time!

Those two readings are straight from my tap not the tank, I wanted to work out what this situation is first and then assess what I need to do in my tank. The ph is from the water companies website and also from an API liquid test kit. I have had similar readings at 2 other addresses in my city over the last 15 years - ph of 7.1 that is. But I have always known the water was very hard, I live in an area known for limescale problems in kitchen appliances.

But for the fish I want to keep (sans the catfish) this is a good thing right?

thanks Wills