Brand new tank and all kit - Nitrates present!

[stuhyde]

Hi all
Doing a small 10 gallon tropical for my lad - Had a 5 footer back years and years ago so do have some knowledge.
I put the water in around 3 days ago and started the filter going, nothing added but tap safe at this point.
Heater came yesterday so fitted it yesterday afternoon and got it up to 75º
Today noticed that the tank is cloudy, likely bacteria bloom, decided to check levels
PH 7.6 / Ammonia 0 / Nitrites 0 / Nitrates 40+
Not sure how this can be - gravel was new and washed, tank washed, filter and everything else brand new.

Any thoughts?

 

[stuhyde]

Ammonia does have a very very slight green tint to it so there may be some very low levels of this, but Nitrites are definitely 0.

 

[stuhyde]

 

[stuhyde]

I'm thinking tap water can be the only logical answer after reading about.
Probably answered my own question.....
Will Nitrates go down if there are no Nitrites for them to chomp on?

 

[Essjay]

Will Nitrates go down if there are no Nitrites for them to chomp on?

No, because nitrate does not chomp on nitrite.

Micro-organisms 'eat' ammonia and 'poop' nitrite. More micro-organisms 'eat' this nitrite and 'poop' nitrate. If there are no micro-organisms in the tank yet, nitrate will remain the same as there's nothing making it. Once ammonia is added during a fishless cycle, or fish are put in the tank, they excrete ammonia and as the micro-organisms grow they make nitrate as the end product.

I'm thinking tap water can be the only logical answer after reading about.

Yes, you need to test your tap water


The UK allows certain levels of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate in drinking water - up to 0.5 ppm ammonia, 0.5 ppm nitrite and 50 ppm nitrate. Many areas have a nitrate level approaching this maximum allowed.
Ammonia often comes from chloramine. Water companies use either chlorine or chloramine to disinfect drinking water, and chloramine is ammonia and chlorine joined together. Nitrite can also result from this ammonia.


Just a heads up about the nitrate test - in bottle #2 one of the reagents isn't very soluble and it settles out on the bottom of the bottle. All that shaking the instructions say to do is important as it gets the reagent back into the liquid. Tapping the bottle on the worktop to break up any lumps is also a good idea as is shaking the bottle even more than they say.



Have you read the fishless cycling method on here yet?

Cycling Your New Fresh Water Tank: Read This First!

Cycling Your First Fresh Water Tank What is Cycling and Why is it Important? Fish waste, and especially fish breathing, plus uneaten food and other organic matter breaking down in a tank all produce Ammonia. This can quickly become toxic to fish if it is allowed to build up to any measurable...

www.fishforums.net

 

[stuhyde]

Thanks for the reply.
Did some more reading and it's confirmed that my tap water is what the reading says. Checked my water supplier website and that also said 35-45ppm.
Currently looking at this solution for the Nitrate problem - As it's only a 40L tank (well about 34 after displacement of substrate and decs) then it shouldn't cost all that much to run with replacement filters etc. Reviews look good.
With the cycling, I was going to get a couple of small fish, feed an eyes worth of pellets every couple of days and monitor the water parameters. Got the bacteria bloom at the moment and would like to get the nitrates down before I start, although I don't want to be changing any water at this point so as not to exacerbate the problem.
My old 5 foot tank back in the day, I cycled using pure ammonia.
I'll have a look at the link you mention.

Thanks!

 

[seangee]

If you use that make sure you always have a spare cartridge and test the output regularly. It doesn't degrade gradually, one day the water will come out of it at 0 nitrate and the next day it will be up to 40 (or higher as once exhausted it dumps what it has collected). I tried many times to re-charge the cartridge but never succeeded. In the end I switched to RO, but I have 4 tanks and change somewhere around 250l per week. Just use a strip to test that, they can distinguish between no nitrate and lots of nitrate easily enough

 

[stuhyde]

Just use a strip to test that, they can distinguish between no nitrate and lots of nitrate easily enough

Glad you said that - can be a bit long winded testing for Nitrates with the API kit, and was just about to send 150 test strips back to Amazon as plumped for the API kit instead. Funnily enough the post office couldn't accept the return this morning due to a faulty scanner, so I've just opened them

Just tested both aquarium water and tap back to back and all are identical apart from Nitrates, the tap looks to be a bit higher, so probably need to get that filter.

 

[Lcc86]

Thanks for the reply.
Did some more reading and it's confirmed that my tap water is what the reading says. Checked my water supplier website and that also said 35-45ppm.
Currently looking at this solution for the Nitrate problem - As it's only a 40L tank (well about 34 after displacement of substrate and decs) then it shouldn't cost all that much to run with replacement filters etc. Reviews look good.
With the cycling, I was going to get a couple of small fish, feed an eyes worth of pellets every couple of days and monitor the water parameters. Got the bacteria bloom at the moment and would like to get the nitrates down before I start, although I don't want to be changing any water at this point so as not to exacerbate the problem.
My old 5 foot tank back in the day, I cycled using pure ammonia.
I'll have a look at the link you mention.

Thanks!

What you are describing is a fish in cycle, the link above is for a fishless cycle, which takes more patience but is overall less stressful on the fish.

The API test kit is still really helpful for testing everything else and overall more accurate than strips, it's definitely a worthwhile investment, especially while you cycle.

 

[stuhyde]

What you are describing is a fish in cycle, the link above is for a fishless cycle, which takes more patience but is overall less stressful on the fish.

The API test kit is still really helpful for testing everything else and overall more accurate than strips, it's definitely a worthwhile investment, especially while you cycle.

Yeah I have the API as well as the strips.
Stuck in a bit of a catch 22 at the moment as I want to add just a few small fish to get the cycle going whilst watching levels (mainly for my 6yr old so he can see 'something' in the tank), but my tap water is about 35ppm Nitrates. I'd like to do a partial water to get those down first, but I have bacteria bloom at the moment and dont want to change any water out as this can exacerbate it.

Only put the light on for the pic.

 

[Essjay]

Water changes won't reduce nitrate since it's the same level in your tap water.

Are you aware of what it takes to do a fish-in cycle, especially in a small tank like this? Fish-in cycling should be done with very few fish and the numbers increased slowly. But the tank won't hold many fish and if you intend shoaling fish you would need at least 10 of them and all added at the same time, which is not a good way to do a fish-in cycle.

Do you know the hardness of your water? Fish will be healthier and live longer if kept in water with similar hardness to the water they originate. I've looked on South Staffs Water's website and unfortunately the map for finding hardness doesn't load.

 

[stuhyde]

Water changes won't reduce nitrate since it's the same level in your tap water.

I have ordered the Nitrate remover kit from the above post from Pozzani.

Are you aware of what it takes to do a fish-in cycle, especially in a small tank like this? Fish-in cycling should be done with very few fish and the numbers increased slowly. But the tank won't hold many fish and if you intend shoaling fish you would need at least 10 of them and all added at the same time, which is not a good way to do a fish-in cycle.

Noted. It maybe that he sticks to 3 small fish of this type then. Yeah I know about the very gradual increase in livestock giving time for the tank to catch up each time.

Do you know the hardness of your water? Fish will be healthier and live longer if kept in water with similar hardness to the water they originate. I've looked on South Staffs Water's website and unfortunately the map for finding hardness doesn't load.

I would say around 150ppm, if not a little less, hard to judge from the colour of the strip test.

 

[Essjay]

That hardness is at the upper end of soft - it's 8.4 dH for those who prefer that unit.

I have ordered the Nitrate remover kit from the above post from Pozzani.

Ah, I understand now. Yes you'll have to wait until you've processed some water to do a water change.

Noted. It maybe that he sticks to 3 small fish of this type then. Yeah I know about the very gradual increase in livestock giving time for the tank to catch up each time.

The thing is that if you choose a shoaling species it is best to add the whole shoal at the same time as it causes less stress to the fish. And a whole shoal means at least 10 of them. Adding 3 of a shoaling species means they'll be stressed and be more likely to become sick. But adding 10 to start with means a lot of ammonia being made, then a lot of nitrite while you wait for the micro-organisms to grow.

What fish are you intending to add?


There are things you can to to help reduce the harm a fish-in cycle does to fish, you'll find useful information here

Rescuing A Fish In Cycle Gone Wild - Part Il

Part II SO YOU STILL WANT TO KEEP CYCLING WITH FISH? If you are determined to ignore the above advice in Part I and still think you want to proceed with a fish in cycle, then you need to be aware of the information presented below. SOME IMPORTANT FACTS ABOUT AMMONIA Ammonia in water exists...

www.fishforums.net

 

[stuhyde]

All I have ascertained is that my lad wants neon tetras (or tetras of some kind), so was going to go with maybe 3 of those for the cycle. I'm not entirely sure how many fish I can have in my tank, I've not got that far yet.
I was going to do that bit of homework once I come to the end of the cycling.

It's a minefield out there tbh, and can see why total beginners get confused. Some say a few very small fish, monitor the water and feed every other day a fish eye size. Then after 2 weeks feed the same but every day.
Others say add this and add that, although I was successful adding the ammonia myself 10 years ago.

If he wants tetras as a shoal (10 or so as you say), what fish would go with these that are small, inexpensive and hardy that could be used instead?

I want to get rid of this bloom first really anyway then do a 60%-80% change with the 0 Nitrates water.

 

[Lcc86]

I agree with others, you're better off doing a fishless cycle and adding your entire shoal when you're ready. Fish-in cycling is stressful and if the fish are weak you may lose some/all throughout the process depending on how it goes, I don't think you will find many members of this site who would recommend a fish for this reason. Plus if you introduce fish at a later date without quarantine you risk infecting the original fish. I would say go with a fishless cycle as it will give your son a good message about good animal husbandry and not rushing into things without considering the impact on the fish. It will also feel so much more rewarding when the tank is ready! In the meantime you can perhaps buy some plants and get him to help plant them as something to do while you wait for the tank to be ready for fish?