Brand New And Suffering From Nts

[Tank_Girl]

This is a bit long, but I need help...

It has been about two weeks since I bought my first fish. A Betta Splenden. I immediately fell in love. A few days later, a friend offered up her 20g tank with two fish. A 3 spotted Gourami (7yrs old) and a Serpae Tetra (5 yrs old).
I have done extensive reading over the past couple of weeks and have realized that I have a world of knowledge to gain! I know almost nothing about fish, despite how much I have read. From all the reading, I quickly learned that I fell into "New Tank Syndrome".

Please don't hate me!

I went to a local fish store that specializes in fish and aquariums. I intended to go in and just get some algae eaters and talk to them about my Tetra. He seemed really stressed out. I ended up leaving with 3 Oto Cats, 3 more Serpae Tetras (the store associate thought he was stressed because he was by himself and needed other like him to school with) and 5 Neon Tetras. All on the advice of the associate.

Well, the next day I had a VERY cloudy tank and my fish were even more stressed out. I read online and figured I had introduced too many fish at one time. I went in to the store and spoke to someone else. Telling them about the fish I left with on their associates advice and went over (again) my new tank, when it was set up, etc... He was genuinely irritated that I was given bad information. I left with a liquid called "Colony". I went home, did a quarter tank change and poured it in. I waited 24hrs and had my water tested. My tank water was "perfect". ee

I was really ecstatic about it all and hoping I had passed New Tank turmoil. I love my fish. So does my 3 year old.

Well, my Gourami (Professor Grey Inkling)seems stressed and hides most of the time. My first Tetra, that came with the Gourami, hides at the bottom of the tank and won't school with the others - two of the other Tetras nip at him.

I have also noticed my first Tetra (Captain Dirty Barnacles) hovers down at the bottom. When I feed them, he rarely swims to the top to get it. He is so intimidated, that he waits for the food to get closer to him and then goes for it. I have also noticed that his tail fin is really jagged. I am not sure if it is from the nippy ones or if he has fin rot? He came from a home where they lived in the tank where it had not been cleaned for 3 years... I am surprised that they are even as old as they are, to be honest. I want them to experience great care now and feel like I am failing miserably! I'm trying so hard!

Last night I went in to feed them and they all seemed dazed. Swimming lazily, like they were in a trance. My Gourami, who is usually very skittish, was near the top and to test her out I put my finger in the tank (clean finger) and it's like she was blind and didn't see me at all. She brushed right against me. I put food in the tank and there was no response.

The only thing I could find online about similar behaviour was shock. I hadn't done a water change in days, so it couldn't be that... I don't think...

I am thinking of doing a 30% water change today and a bit of a clean. I was thinking of doing a 50%, removing them and floating them, but with everything they have gone through already, I am not sure if I should put them through that... I have aquarium salts, which I have put in. I assume I don't have to put them in again with a 30% water change?

For them, they have;

* A 20g tank
* Penguin Filter with Bio-Wheel
* Heater (temp is a constant 76 degrees)
* I use tank conditioner and aquarium salts...
* There are a few ornaments in there for hiding and 3 seaweed-like plants


Now, I am also having issues with my Betta (Peso Kwazii Shellington)... He is behaving very aggressively, pecking at the glass of his tank. He is alone in there and he has a 1/2g. It is unfiltered and has no heater, but I change the water frequently and his water is never below 24 degrees. I know, now, that this tank size is too small (regardless of how they sell them in store), but I won't be buying another one until I get the funds and can get all my fish issues under control (or as much as possible). His water also smells really bizarre... Does anyone know why that is? Can I do a full tank clean?

For his tank I use Betta conditioner and Enviro-Clean with every change.

Thanks for listening and thank you, in advance, for the help!!!!

Also, would it be advised to bring the fish I bought from the store back? I heard I could do this, but they never suggested it when I went in to speak with them about the issues and the initial over-introduction of the tank.

 

[zain611]

You should probably see if you can give most of the fish back and only have 4 to start with. You should do frequent water changes to keep the toxins down (ammonia and nitrite) and you should get a testing kit to test these. You can add another 4 of those fish after a week

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

What are the water stats now? The behaviour of your fish does not suggest "perfect" (0 ammonia, 0 nitrite).

Personally, I would do a ~95% water change with similar temp dechlorinated water. During a "fish in cycle" you need to be prepared to do this on a daily basis, it could take several months for the bacteria colonies to get to big enough sizes to keep the water safe.

A 0.5g cup with no filter for your Betta is just asking for trouble, I'm sorry if that comes across as harsh.

 

[Tank_Girl]

So. Took in for a test again. He said the same thing, "perfect". He said there was a tiny bit of ammonia, but that it is considered normal for tap water and absolutely of no concern.

My fish are behaving much more normal now.

I haven't cleaned the tank yet, as I wanted to see what the replies here were. The guy at the specialty store said to do no more than a 30% water change...

Again, I'm new, so I have no idea what you are asking of me. That's not meant to sound rude! I am realizing that could be read wrong, but don't know how to otherwise word it. Being totally honest. I really have no clue. Can you explain how to do that? How often would I perform this?

I know about the betta. I know that it will likely not live life expectancy in such a tank. Although I have quite a few friends that have done well with such a habitat for their betta. Still, I fully intend to get a larger tank for it, in time.

Thanks for the advice and help!

Oh and they wouldn't take my fish back. They said I did not get a protection plan, nor do I have a VIP membership. So it is in my hands. Even though it was their terrible advice and admitted the fault. Not sure I'll be dealing with them gain. For a specialty store, it seems as though I'd get the same level of service from PetSmart...

 

[Electric Warrior]

He is asking what are the exact test results of the water in your tank; PH, ammonia, Nitrite, nitrate, etc. Do you have a testing kit? If not, that is the first thing you need to get pronto.

 

[asheyna]

I'm sorry to hear you've had such a rough experience with your first tank and bad LFS advice.

Ammonia is not supposed to be in a tank, even small amounts will stress fish out. I second the advice to get a testing kit. You're going to want something like this: http/www.apifishcare.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=67 That will give you exact numbers for Ammonia and Nitrite (the two things you'll be watching as your tank cycles. If it's not possible to get those right away, take a sample to the LFS and ask them to test for you, that will at least give us an idea. See if you can make them give you numbers, not just "a small amount".

I would suggest trying to return the fish, I know that's hard but it's probably for the best.

Ignore the advice to never do more than a 30% change. Doing a fish-in cycle (which is what you're doing right now) means doing BIG water changes... like 50% or even more. I know there's a lot to take in and it can seem overwhelming. Check out this link: http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/224306-fish-in-cycling/ for information on what's going on in your tank. Don't worry, you'll get it... we've all been there!

During a fish-in cycle you need to be prepared to do a WC every day. It will help keep the ammonia and nitrite levels of your tank down to levels that aren't AS toxic for your fish.

I've sent a friend request - feel free to PM me any questions if you don't want to post them.

 

[zain611]

Let me tell you my story of cycling

I bought a 28litre tank from my local pets@home and put my 5 goldfishes in there as their old tank had no filter and had damage to it. after 2 months of them in there i found out they are very overcrowded in there and they were getting ammonia and nitrite burns. i then decided to give them to my grandad as he has a pond for them and 1 of them i had for 7 years. Next day i went to another pets@home abit more further away and bought:
1)interpet bioactive tapsafe
2)API stress zyme (to help start off the cycling)
3)25W heater (as this is the first time im getting tropical fish)

I then set up the heater and changed 100% of the water and used the new tapsafe. i then waited 1 week and purchased 2 female guppies, 1 snakeskin guppy and 1 flame guppy. A few days later one of my female guppies died(Bits of its tail was taken off somehow). I then got 2 neons, 2 glowlights and 2 yamato shrimp. After 5 weeks my ammonia and nitrite reading were still showing so i did a big water change and nitrite was 0ppm and stayed like that since now. i then changed my filter sponge as my ammonia was rising 0.25ppm a day. After 4 weeks my tank cycle for the first time of keeping fish

 

[OldMan47]

Welcome to TFF Tank_Girl.
Let's get right down to business. First, stop worrying about doing water changes, they do not cause significant stress. Instead worry about chemical poisons which will cause damage to your fish. In a situation such as you had at first with all fish becoming lethargic, I would immediately do a 90%+ water change and then test to see if I still had a problem. There is no safe level of ammonia that we can measure easily so any place that tells you that a reading they get is just fine really does not understand things in the same terms that we do. Any actual ammonia reading is too much. By not cleaning the tank, you have probably avoided a few other common errors, like changing the filter media or cleaning it too thoroughly. All you want to do with a dirty filter is to rinse the media out in old tank water and plunk it back in where you got it. The dirty old tank water is great for watering plants because it contains nitrogen fertilizer for your plants and adding back new treated tap water is just like any other water change.
You have hit on one of my pet peeves. Leave that darned salt on the shelf where it may help for certain diseases. It has no place in a healthy or a cycling tank. If you are a reef keeper then by all means adjust salt to the correct concentration, but you were talking freshwater fish so put it on the very back of your medication shelf and leave it there.

Depending on what tetra you have, the betta may well be OK living in your larger tank. Some tetras are too nippy for a betta to live with so you will need to evaluate that. A betta, kept in a 20 gallon tank, should live for at least 5 years if you can keep the poisons out of your water. That brings us back to measuring your own water chemistry with a liquid type test and keeping both ammonia and nitrites at under 0.25 ppm at all times. If you brought over a fully functional filter from the previous owner, I am a bit surprised that you sound like your tank is uncycled. It should be going great unless they chose to "help" you by replacing the filter media.

If it turns out you can't keep the betta in the main tank, do daily water changes of about 90% of his water using your water conditioner and he will be fine. You do not need a special conditioner for a betta. Sodium thiosulphate, the active ingredient in water conditioners, works the same for a betta or a guppy, it removes toxic chlorine.

A water change is easy. First thing, unplug all electrical things in your tank. Get a new bucket and siphon off a percentage of your water. Dump that water and use your conditioner as directed to neutralize the chlorine in the new water. Then run the new water into your tank. the new water should be about the same temperature as the water that you removed. I set aside a cup or more of the old water next to the sink and just compare its temperature to my bucket of new water by using my hand to judge it. If I can't tell the difference, the fish won't either. A 20 gallon tank should only take 3 or 4 buckets of water to drain and then refill. I use a 5 gallon new plastic bucket for a water change and I never use that bucket for anything else. You can use some air tubing as your siphon or you can get what they will call a gravel vacuum at the local fish shop and use it as your siphon. This is what it looks like when I am returning water to my tank. After the tank has been refilled, plug in the heater and filter again.

Yep, I just put a board across the top of the tank and start the siphon.

 

[asheyna]

Oh that board trick is a good one! I'm going to have to remember that next time. I just /very/ carefully pour the water XD