Brachirus Panoides!

[dave_oddballs]

my lfs is getting in some freshwater sole today, told me to go take a look on thursday once they have settled a bit, now i read on a website about 3 truely freshwater soles but been told elswere that there is only one. A bit of clarification on the subject would be greatly appreciated, and if possible the common and scientific name(s) of the true fresh water species. Il take a look at them either way but i dont think i want to be bothering with salt!
Thanks
David

 

[nmonks]

Unless you shop can provide the Latin name for the fish in question, you can safely (VERY safely) assume these soles are brackish/marine species. There are no exceptions that turn up commonly, and the very few true freshwater species are rarely seen, literally once every 5-10 years in my experience!

Details on the various species and how to tell them apart are on my Brackish FAQ.

Cheers, Neale

 

[dave_oddballs]

so i would b correct if i say, brachirus harmandi and synaptura salinarum are true soles of the soleidae family and are true freshwater fish, and brachirus panoides of the same family which can either be perminantly freshwater or brackish and cynoglossus waanderii are a tongue sole of the cynoglossidae family and are true freshwater fish.
So any of these fish will do fine in freshwater?
Oh, and do they all stay around the 4 inch mark?
Thanks
David

 

[simonas]

Dave I got three the other week, there is a post of mine with pics showing which ones I had, I kept them in bracksih but the three all faded within the month, yet the two waspfish I bought within the same week have one from strength to strength and look very healthy. Very hard fish to keep in my opinion made more difficult by the problems in identifying them. I personally wouldn't attempt them again.

Ideally you'd keep the on their own but I can tell you that that would be a very dull tank to watch in the day!! lol

 

[dave_oddballs]

i might pop in to the lfs tomorrow, he must have some sort of name, hopefully a scientific one!, to have ordered them.i have the list of the names off neale's brackish faq, and also the descriptions of them. if something tells me its a brackish water fish i would just walk away. if something tells me it may be one of the true fresh water fish i will look carefully, jot down a few notes, double check the scientific name with him or get him to contact the supplier, (one of them must know the scientific name!) and basically just go home and do a bit of research. i have a 30x12x12 tank running with nothing in it o if it turns out they are freshwater i could just buy some sand! does anybody know the temperature at which the fresh water species prefer and ph?
thanks
David

 

[nmonks]

The freshwater species are fairly adaptable, but hard, alkaline water is preferred.

They aren't delicate as such, but they starve very easily in aquaria, so it's crucial they're the only night-time bottom feeders. Don't mix with catfish, loaches, etc. Do also appreciate they only take live foods and wet frozen foods. Earthworms, live bloodworms and live tubifex are all ideal foods. There is a good argument for holding new specimens in a quarantine tank for a few weeks until you've got your specimen feeding.

Once settled, they can be astonishingly tough and adaptable; at university I kept a marine plaice for years, and he ate trout pellets!

Cheers, Neale

 

[dave_oddballs]

i found out today that the sole are brachirus panoides. Iv read on numerous sites that they can indeed live in fresh water. I would just like to clarify that? I dont mind adding small amount of salt to the tank but do not wish to invest in any measuring equipment!
The guy at my lfs ordered 6, 1 of which was d.o.a. 5 left, all but 1 looking extremely stressed. Will wait til friday to see if they 'perk up'.
I visited bas last sunday and saw some fresh water pipefish, which i believe have similar needs to the sole in that they prefer slightly hard and alkaline water and eat live and frozen foods like bloodworm etc. Is that correct? If so i am at bas a week on sat to pick up some channa so could pick up a couple of pipefish. Also i have seen a couple of small goby type fish that have similar needs but not sure if they are night feeders which i understand i dont want as the sole should be the only night fish. What i am trying to say is that as mentioned it would be a pretty bland tank with just a couple of soles but im sure you could make it more attractive with 'safe' tankmates.
Wbat are your thoughts? (neale)
David

 

[nmonks]

I'm not convinced the fish sold as Brachirus panoides (or sometimes, Brachirus pan, a totally different species) is actually what it claims to be; at least some seem to be Brachirus orientalis, a brackish/saltwater species. Be sure to visit Fishbase and examine photos of each species, then make your own judgement. Brachirus panoides at least is an estuarine species, and will need slightly brackish water to do well in the long term, even if it occurs in freshwater from time to time. Brachirus pan, by contrast, is apparently a true freshwater species, but because the two names are similar, it's likely they've been much confused in the past.

As I've written elsewhere, your best bet is to keep flatfish in a quarantine at SG 1.003 to 1.005 (6-9 g marine salt mix/litre) until they're obviously feeding; once they are, you can move them to a community tank and see how they fare. Brackish water at this level will not harm freshwater species, and will rejuvenate sickly brackish/marine species. If flatfish that were feeding stop doing so once moved to freshwater conditions, you'll know they were brackish water fish, and can move them back.

Pipefish are extremely difficult to maintain unless you have access to live foods. In addition, they are very difficult to identify. For example, at least one species has freshwater, brackish water and marine subspecies, all virtually identical! I'd avoid them to be honest, unless you have a rock-solid scientific name to go by, and a lifetime supply of live foods, such as garden pond or lots of guppy fry. At the very least, read up on how people used to keep wild (as opposed to tank-bred) seahorses, and find out if you're up for that.

Cheers, Neale

 

[dave_oddballs]

the lfs assured me the sole were maintained in fresh water. I think i would be able to go brackish using the x gram per litre method. The pipefish at bas are definately freshwater, they have been there for weeks, look in perfect condition and eating well and extremely lively! The sole was a decent size, around 4 inch and the pipefish about the same. Would they happily live together? Would the pipefish eat daphnia? I could sort out a safe supply of that!
Thanks
David

 

[nmonks]

the lfs assured me the sole were maintained in fresh water.

So what? Most brackish water fish are "maintained" in freshwater, and for obvious reasons, tropical fish shops have no idea where a fish was actually caught. Moreover, because brackish water fish move between fresh and saline habitats, just because they're caught in freshwater, it doesn't mean they can be kept in freshwater indefinitely.

Would they happily live together? Would the pipefish eat daphnia? I could sort out a safe supply of that!

In theory, provided you quarantined the flatfish first, as described, this combination should work. Daphnia are fine, but as ever, you shouldn't feed fish on a single thing forever. So while daphnia could be the staple, be using bloodworms, brine shrimps, guppy fry, etc as periodic treats, and if you can, wean the pipes onto frozen foods. My (wild) seahorse eventually took frozen mysis, for example.

Cheers, Neale