Bolivian Ram's
- Thread starter paulw333
- Start date
The second pic is a female - she has a breeding tube that looks exactly like my female's. I know mine is female as she has laid eggs.
The first pic could also be female looking at the fins.
The first pic could also be female looking at the fins.
guppi
Fish Crazy
Cant really see.
The black spot on the side of a male blue ram will simply be black. On females, the black spot will have bright blue speckles.
Females also tend to have rose-pink bellies.
The black spot on the side of a male blue ram will simply be black. On females, the black spot will have bright blue speckles.
Females also tend to have rose-pink bellies.
That's german/blue rams. These are bolivians. My female bolivian has never had a pink belly, and my pair have spawned several times.
guppi
Fish Crazy
Sorry my bad
OP
OP
paulw333
New Member
thanks essjay..... i think looking by them that they are both female!...they do flair up to each other quiet a bit...especially around feeding time....what are the differences between the male and the female?...i want to go out and get a male as i want to have a shot at breeding them! 
thanks
thanks
These are photos of my pair just before they spawned (about half an hour after the pics were taken) so the females spawning tube in particular is larger than it usually is.
Male
Female
Hopefully you can see the difference.
The first rays of the male's dorsal fin are longer than the females, though sometimes males can have shorter ones and females longer ones.
The males ventral fins (under the head) have extensions, the female's don't.
The top and bottom rays on the male's tail are extended as well, the female's aren't.
Where the anal fin attaches to the body, the body is flat in a male and rounded in a female - though under nourished females also have a flat area, this is quite common in shops.
The fish in shops are usually quite young and males may not yet have developed the extensions to their fins.
Nearly forgot to mention - if the fish in the shop happen to have visible spawning tubes, you can the see the different shapes in the pics.
Male
Female
Hopefully you can see the difference.
The first rays of the male's dorsal fin are longer than the females, though sometimes males can have shorter ones and females longer ones.
The males ventral fins (under the head) have extensions, the female's don't.
The top and bottom rays on the male's tail are extended as well, the female's aren't.
Where the anal fin attaches to the body, the body is flat in a male and rounded in a female - though under nourished females also have a flat area, this is quite common in shops.
The fish in shops are usually quite young and males may not yet have developed the extensions to their fins.
Nearly forgot to mention - if the fish in the shop happen to have visible spawning tubes, you can the see the different shapes in the pics.
OP
OP
paulw333
New Member
These are photos of my pair just before they spawned (about half an hour after the pics were taken) so the females spawning tube in particular is larger than it usually is.
Male
Female
Hopefully you can see the difference.
The first rays of the male's dorsal fin are longer than the females, though sometimes males can have shorter ones and females longer ones.
The males ventral fins (under the head) have extensions, the female's don't.
The top and bottom rays on the male's tail are extended as well, the female's aren't.
Where the anal fin attaches to the body, the body is flat in a male and rounded in a female - though under nourished females also have a flat area, this is quite common in shops.
The fish in shops are usually quite young and males may not yet have developed the extensions to their fins.
Nearly forgot to mention - if the fish in the shop happen to have visible spawning tubes, you can the see the different shapes in the pics.
Essjay this is really really helpful thanks!!.... according to this then, i have 2 female's!!... is it just luck if i go into my lfs and ask for a male that i get a male?
I forgot to mention that the anal fin is usually longer in males, overlapping their tail fins.
The trouble is that unless you find a shop with older fish that have their spawning tubes visible, you can't guarantee what sex they'll be. All the signs to look for are less obvious in younger fish, and an underfed female will have a flat belly like a male.
When I first got bolivian rams, I chose the two fish that were the least alike. They turned out to be 2 males. There's a thread on here from a couple of years ago asking for an ID. A few months later, I was in another shop and they had some home bred, mature fish fish for sale. Two were obvious females from their spawning tubes. I bought both, on the understanding the shop would take one back, and one male from the other shop if necessary. Two of them paired up, they spawned while I was out returning the 2 'spare' fish to the shop.
The trouble is that unless you find a shop with older fish that have their spawning tubes visible, you can't guarantee what sex they'll be. All the signs to look for are less obvious in younger fish, and an underfed female will have a flat belly like a male.
When I first got bolivian rams, I chose the two fish that were the least alike. They turned out to be 2 males. There's a thread on here from a couple of years ago asking for an ID. A few months later, I was in another shop and they had some home bred, mature fish fish for sale. Two were obvious females from their spawning tubes. I bought both, on the understanding the shop would take one back, and one male from the other shop if necessary. Two of them paired up, they spawned while I was out returning the 2 'spare' fish to the shop.
OP
OP
paulw333
New Member
Just looked and examined the fish and noticed that they both have the same fins ect you mentioned..expect that one has really long extentions on the ventral fins...but has no extensions on the tail!.
Mine didn't develop the tail extensions till I'd had them a while. The 2 males were quite young when I got them. Are yours still young? If they are, it may take a few more weeks before they fully develop their male or female characteristics.
The problem with bolivian rams is that the only sure fire way to tell the sexes apart is by their breeding tubes, and these aren't usually visible at the age they're sold. The fins only give a guide, they aren't a 100% way to tell. I would wait a few weeks and see, then look for another of the opposite sex if they both turn out to be the same.
The problem with bolivian rams is that the only sure fire way to tell the sexes apart is by their breeding tubes, and these aren't usually visible at the age they're sold. The fins only give a guide, they aren't a 100% way to tell. I would wait a few weeks and see, then look for another of the opposite sex if they both turn out to be the same.
OP
OP
paulw333
New Member
Ive had one about a year and the other about 6 months
They both have an 'extended' tubular anus, the one with the ventral fin extensions does seem though to have a slightly larger 'tube'
Im so confused
They both have an 'extended' tubular anus, the one with the ventral fin extensions does seem though to have a slightly larger 'tube'
Im so confused
The female's breeding tube is is the same width all the way down. Looked at from the side, it looks square. It has to be the same all the way down as eggs have to pass through and they are quite big.
The male's is smaller and goes to a point at the bottom. He doesn't have to lay eggs!
If both of yours have cylindrical tubes the same width all the way along, they are both female. At the age they are, they are old enough to tell. As for the fins, fish do vary from individual to individual. Some men look quite feminine, some women look mannish, it's the same with fish. This is why the fins can be misleading.
If you look at the ones in the shop tank and choose the fish with the longest fin extensions, and with an anal fin that overlaps the tail fin you stand the best chance of it being a male.
My 2 males lived quite happily together till I put the females in the tank then war broke out. I had to put one in the QT or they'd have damaged each other. For a few days, the male I left in spent half his time with one female at one side of the tank and half with the other female at the other side. Then he paired up with one and they both attacked the other, so badly I had to put female #2 in the QT as well.
So what I'm getting round to is, if you do manage to find a male keep an eye on them just in case the same thing happens to you.
The male's is smaller and goes to a point at the bottom. He doesn't have to lay eggs!
If both of yours have cylindrical tubes the same width all the way along, they are both female. At the age they are, they are old enough to tell. As for the fins, fish do vary from individual to individual. Some men look quite feminine, some women look mannish, it's the same with fish. This is why the fins can be misleading.
If you look at the ones in the shop tank and choose the fish with the longest fin extensions, and with an anal fin that overlaps the tail fin you stand the best chance of it being a male.
My 2 males lived quite happily together till I put the females in the tank then war broke out. I had to put one in the QT or they'd have damaged each other. For a few days, the male I left in spent half his time with one female at one side of the tank and half with the other female at the other side. Then he paired up with one and they both attacked the other, so badly I had to put female #2 in the QT as well.
So what I'm getting round to is, if you do manage to find a male keep an eye on them just in case the same thing happens to you.
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paulw333
New Member
Thanks for your priceless advice essjay..i really appreciate it! .... now im gonna have to try and keep my eye out for a male
..ps on another note...given my size of tank (200L) would i be able to keep 2 breeding pairs at the same time? ....or do you advise that i get a different species of dwarf cichlid?
You would probably get away with it in that size tank - mine is 125 litres, about half the size of yours. Some people reckon they should be in groups, it's just my tank isn't big enough.
I've also had apistogrammas in the same tank with no problems. They are the only cichlids I've tried with them.
I've also had apistogrammas in the same tank with no problems. They are the only cichlids I've tried with them.
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