Bolivian Ram Not Eating

[malfunction]

I think it might be a little early to return the Bolivian. After all, it has only been two days, so it's probably still adjusting to the new environment. Personally, I would wait at least a week to see if the fish settles in. Just my opinion though.

 

[WILDER]

I don't want him to be returned as you never know what they will do with him. It's a case of the buyer getting his money back for selling an unhealthy fish, But it is Mark choice at the end of the day.

 

[mark4785]

I don't want him to be returned as you never know what they will do with him. It's a case of the buyer getting his money back for selling an unhealthy fish, But it is Mark choice at the end of the day.

 
I personally don't think it will begin to eat. Its mouth muscles look under developed as though its rarely used them, probably due to a bacterial infection in its gut (which has caused it to lose appetite) that has gone unnoticed while it was in the store. Given this, I think I will take it back but I will continue treating it for several more days before I do so just in case something miraculous happens.
 
The under-developed mouth muscle is something I've seen in GBR's. I think it occurs in the smaller female GBR's that, for one reason or another, never manage to get to eat the food that a store employee hastily puts in WITHOUT checking that every mouth has been fed. The same thing has happened with this Bolivian in my view.

 

[WILDER]

Poor thing.
If he doesn't start to eat or improve say in 4 days I would think about putting him out of his misery.
So Sad.
You done everything possible for the little guy.

 

[mark4785]

Poor thing.
If he doesn't start to eat or improve say in 4 days I would think about putting him out of his misery.
So Sad.
You done everything possible for the little guy.

 
How would you go about euthanising a fish? I don't think I could do it as I'd be very upset and guilty afterwards for a long time. 

 

[WILDER]

I know. Can't be nice starving to death. I only did it when it was really called for.
There always a debate on it. But I used the ice method. Some use clove,oil. Or chop there heads off.
But I couldn't fetch myself to chop the head off.
 
is he a bit more active yet.
Do you know how long the medication takes to kick in?

 

[mark4785]

I know. Can't be nice starving to death. I only did it when it was really called for.
There always a debate on it. But I used the ice method. Some use clove,oil. Or chop there heads off.
But I couldn't fetch myself to chop the head off.
 
is he a bit more active yet.
Do you know how long the medication takes to kick in?

 
He has seemed slightly more active but it goes through phases of staying still and moving about. It seems to rely on the current to move rather than move itself around which isn't a good sign.
 
In humans I know antibiotics can take up to 2 weeks to begin to take effect. However, as the fish is in 27 degrees C water and is considerably smaller than a human, it may synthesise quicker due to its faster metabolism. This is just a logical guess. Hopefully I'm right! 

 

[WILDER]

Bless him. He bound to be weak with not eating.  Just give him a bit longer and hope he starts to improve.
The vitamin supplements might help him too.
I always thought antibiotics with human take affect in 3 days. But not sure.
 
Good Luck.

 

[Sickbound]

Sorry to hear it still isn't doing well. If you do decide to euthanize it, I would suggest clove oil. It seems to be the most humane method.
First you need to pick up a bottle of clove oil. You don't need much of the stuff, but it has to be added gradually to keep the stress on the fish to a minimum.
Next, you will want to place your fish into a smaller container full of water (I have a one gallon tank used specifically for the unfortunate event of euthanizing fish).
Next you need to mix 3 drops of clove oil with a small amount of water in a separate container. Make sure it is mixed thoroughly, because it is an oil and it would otherwise simply float on top of the water.
Add it slowly into the water with the fish you intend to euthanize. Stir the water slowly with your fingers or a chopstick or other rod-shaped object. After a minute or so you should notice the fish getting lethargic. At this point, slowly add another mixture of water with 3 drops of clove oil. Slowly stir like before.
It will get more and more lethargic and will eventually fall asleep and go belly up. Add 3 more drops. It is sad, but at this point the fish feels nothing, and if you wish to step away for a few minutes to give the fish time to die, do so. When you check the fish, check for gill movement. If there is still gill movement, add 3 more drops. 
When the fish is no longer moving its gills, it is gone. Be sure to wash or dispose of any instruments or containers that came into contact with the clove oil mixture.
It is sad, but again, after the initial dose, the fish will feel nothing and will peacefully drift off to sleep.
 
On a lighter note, if your current Bolivian survives and you plan on getting more, I feel like you could comfortably keep 3 adult rams in your 120L. Bolivian rams are really hard to sex when they are juveniles. If the rams at your lfs are juveniles I would recommend indiscriminately buying 5 or 6 of them. When sex becomes apparent, trade back the 2 or 3 that you don't want. It's even possible that all 5 or 6 could get along just fine in a the tank, depending on your decorations.

 

I know. Can't be nice starving to death. I only did it when it was really called for.
There always a debate on it. But I used the ice method. Some use clove,oil. Or chop there heads off.
But I couldn't fetch myself to chop the head off.
 
is he a bit more active yet.
Do you know how long the medication takes to kick in?

 
He has seemed slightly more active but it goes through phases of staying still and moving about. It seems to rely on the current to move rather than move itself around which isn't a good sign.
 
In humans I know antibiotics can take up to 2 weeks to begin to take effect. However, as the fish is in 27 degrees C water and is considerably smaller than a human, it may synthesise quicker due to its faster metabolism. This is just a logical guess. Hopefully I'm right! 

 

I've seen antibiotics begin to work overnight in fish. I think it really depends on the type of fish and the type of antibiotic.

 

[mark4785]

Sorry to hear it still isn't doing well. If you do decide to euthanize it, I would suggest clove oil. It seems to be the most humane method.
First you need to pick up a bottle of clove oil. You don't need much of the stuff, but it has to be added gradually to keep the stress on the fish to a minimum.
Next, you will want to place your fish into a smaller container full of water (I have a one gallon tank used specifically for the unfortunate event of euthanizing fish).
Next you need to mix 3 drops of clove oil with a small amount of water in a separate container. Make sure it is mixed thoroughly, because it is an oil and it would otherwise simply float on top of the water.
Add it slowly into the water with the fish you intend to euthanize. Stir the water slowly with your fingers or a chopstick or other rod-shaped object. After a minute or so you should notice the fish getting lethargic. At this point, slowly add another mixture of water with 3 drops of clove oil. Slowly stir like before.
It will get more and more lethargic and will eventually fall asleep and go belly up. Add 3 more drops. It is sad, but at this point the fish feels nothing, and if you wish to step away for a few minutes to give the fish time to die, do so. When you check the fish, check for gill movement. If there is still gill movement, add 3 more drops. 
When the fish is no longer moving its gills, it is gone. Be sure to wash or dispose of any instruments or containers that came into contact with the clove oil mixture.
It is sad, but again, after the initial dose, the fish will feel nothing and will peacefully drift off to sleep.
 
On a lighter note, if your current Bolivian survives and you plan on getting more, I feel like you could comfortably keep 3 adult rams in your 120L. Bolivian rams are really hard to sex when they are juveniles. If the rams at your lfs are juveniles I would recommend indiscriminately buying 5 or 6 of them. When sex becomes apparent, trade back the 2 or 3 that you don't want. It's even possible that all 5 or 6 could get along just fine in a the tank, depending on your decorations.

 


I know. Can't be nice starving to death. I only did it when it was really called for.
There always a debate on it. But I used the ice method. Some use clove,oil. Or chop there heads off.
But I couldn't fetch myself to chop the head off.
 
is he a bit more active yet.
Do you know how long the medication takes to kick in?

 
He has seemed slightly more active but it goes through phases of staying still and moving about. It seems to rely on the current to move rather than move itself around which isn't a good sign.
 
In humans I know antibiotics can take up to 2 weeks to begin to take effect. However, as the fish is in 27 degrees C water and is considerably smaller than a human, it may synthesise quicker due to its faster metabolism. This is just a logical guess. Hopefully I'm right! 

 

I've seen antibiotics begin to work overnight in fish. I think it really depends on the type of fish and the type of antibiotic.


 
Thank you for all of the advice there, however, I have contacted the store about the fish and they have agreed to accept it back for a full refund or a replacement. When I told the person from the store that it looks emaciated it was as though she hadn't heard me in that she just kept reiterating that I could get a refund. I thought people that keep animals or work close to animals would be slightly concerned if the animals they keep are sold emaciated. Apparently not...

 

[WILDER]

I think the fish has been through enough. If you don't  want him end his misery as by the sound of it the store does not care..
He doesn't stand a chance
Best thing to do is put him out of his misery and take him in a bag to the store, This is what I had to deal with. and it  wasn't nice watching him fade away.

 

[WILDER]

Sorry just a bit up set by the situation. people say there only fish. I hate that.because they don't understand unless they have cared for a living fish.See that they do have personalties and you can get very fond of them.

 

[mark4785]

Sorry just a bit up set by the situation. people say there only fish. I hate that.because they don't understand unless they have cared for a living fish.See that they do have personalties and you can get very fond of them.

 
I've just got back from the P@H store. I asked the guy if he would feed the Bolivian Rams and, surprise surprise, none except one would eat the flake food he placed in their tank. I was surprised to see that he used flake food because Bolivians are bottom-dwellers and will very rarely come to the top area of the tank for the flake. In addition, there were Corydoras in there! I only ever feed sinking pellets/tabs to Corydoras because they are most certainly bottom-dwellers.
 
I told the guy what to look out for when a Bolivian is stressed which is a black horizontal tar mark on its abdomen and which continues onto its caudal fin and pointed out that the remaining stock of Bolivian rams were not eating. Hopefully he will try a different food with them and consider treating the tank.
 
As i've said previously, I think the Bolivian was emaciated and most likely not going to recover so it was pointless keeping it in isolation.

 

[WILDER]

Thanks for the update.
R.I.P. Cutie Pie

 

[KieranBoyne]

R.I.P buddy. I am so sorry for your tragic loss. It annoys me as well when they say just buy another one or its just a fish, fish are the same as humans in a sense, as they have personalitites and feelings, but it is just impossible for them to express these feelings and emotions. once again, im sorry for your loss