Blue green algae

[DoubleDutch]

Personally I expect phosfates to be 0 and be a part of the problem but the other way around (a lack of)

 

[Colin_T]

blue green algae is a bacteria not a plant, it doesn't grow like normal plants/ algae do.

 

[DoubleDutch]

blue green algae is a bacteria not a plant, it doesn't grow like normal plants/ algae do.

Is this meand for me Colin?

If so I know but still occures in tanks with an unbalance of nitrated and phosfates and therefor often found in new set ups and in combination with a bad plantgrowth on the otherhand (which depend on phosfates as well). The fact that it occures in new set ups is contraversial to the "pollutionstory" in my opinion which I don't believe anymore for that reason.

10 years ago I struggled with this bacteria for quite a long time. Based on the info I cut on feeding etc...., but solved it after feeding more, add ferts and buying cheap DIY lightingtunes (and got rid of the expensive ones)..

Had cyano in my new hillstreamtank as well. Same recipy and it is allmost gone.

 

[JuiceBox52]

I feel your pain Badger, my 20g has been covered in it for a year lol

 

[xxBarneyxx]

The fact that it occures in new set ups is contraversial to the "pollutionstory" in my opinion which I don't believe anymore for that reason.

It can happen in new setups due to:

Overfeeding
Phosphate in source water
Cheap/poor quality food with high phosphate

In tanks with plants it can happen early due to one of the above and then the plant growth kicks and in solves the problem. In these cases it is definitely due to "pollution" of too many phosphates in the tank. I have had this on non-planted tanks and marine tanks and removing phosphate removed the cyanobacteria.

However I do agree with what your saying. I think it can definitely happen the other way around, a lack of one particular nutrient can certainly cause algae issues. I haven't seen it myself with Cyanobacteria but can believe it would happen.

 

[GaryE]

I get blue green seasonally, which suggests it gets through water filtration plants and chlorine. It gets bad, and then it doesn't. I tip my hat to it since in the early days of life on the planet, this bacteria provided the oxygen we all need. Then, ceremony of respect done, I kill it.

7 days no light, tank covered in a blanket. yes, many plants are unhappy.

I dosed potassium nitrate on the advice of someone on another list many years ago, and that worked well. Very well. I needed a test kit to monitor, and potassium nitrate, as a bomb making material, is tightly controlled in my country.

There are expensive red algae destroyer products that killed it, and didn't seem to harm my fish (which are delicate enough breeders). But it's secret ingredient stuff and I really don't like that.

A direct hit from a syringe full of H2O2 kills small spots.

It's January, so it just showed up for its twice annual visit ( I see it again in late summer). I have a tank in darkness right now. It's been a cycle for the 16 years I've lived in this house.

 

[Oblio]

I get blue green seasonally, which suggests it gets through water filtration plants and chlorine. It gets bad, and then it doesn't. I tip my hat to it since in the early days of life on the planet, this bacteria provided the oxygen we all need. Then, ceremony of respect done, I kill it.

 

[WhistlingBadger]

I get blue green seasonally, which suggests it gets through water filtration plants and chlorine. It gets bad, and then it doesn't. I tip my hat to it since in the early days of life on the planet, this bacteria provided the oxygen we all need. Then, ceremony of respect done, I kill it.

 

[WhistlingBadger]

Phosphate is .25-.5 ppm; can't read the test more finely than that. It's definitely higher than the tap water, which registers zero. Nitrates still showing zero, too, so I don't think we're overfeeding. Weird.

So, I'll need some sort of phosphate reducing media. Any recommendations? This is a 150g tank with a huge canister filter, if that helps.

 

[Byron]

Phosphate is .25-.5 ppm; can't read the test more finely than that. It's definitely higher than the tap water, which registers zero. Nitrates still showing zero, too, so I don't think we're overfeeding. Weird.

So, I'll need some sort of phosphate reducing media. Any recommendations? This is a 150g tank with a huge canister filter, if that helps.

I just posted on the phosphate issue and cyanobacteria problem in your new thread, and will copy here as it is relevant.

First thing, @WhistlingBadger is that the phosphates at 0.25 to 0.50 are not high at all. I've no idea what phosphates are in my tanks, but it is not something to be concerned about unless they are truly high in the source water. Most phosphates in an aquarium come with fish food, and are thus inevitable. Diana Walstad writes that the phosphates in her natural planted tanks are in the range of 1 to 5 mg/l (= ppm), which is at the very least double your level and possibly as much as ten times your level. Not a problem.

Second, cyanobacteria is caused by organics in the presence of light. Several years ago I battled it twice, maybe 4-5 months apart in the same tank, and in both cases I got rid of it by doing substantial water changes including a very good cleaning of the substrate, keeping the filter very clean, reducing plant fertilizer (liquid) for 3 weeks, and feeding the fish minimally (sufficient, but not more). The organics naturally lowered, and were mainly used up by the plants (photo below shows the plant load).

 

[WhistlingBadger]

I just posted on the phosphate issue and cyanobacteria problem in your new thread, and will copy here as it is relevant.

First thing, @WhistlingBadger is that the phosphates at 0.25 to 0.50 are not high at all. I've no idea what phosphates are in my tanks, but it is not something to be concerned about unless they are truly high in the source water. Most phosphates in an aquarium come with fish food, and are thus inevitable. Diana Walstad writes that the phosphates in her natural planted tanks are in the range of 1 to 5 mg/l (= ppm), which is at the very least double your level and possibly as much as ten times your level. Not a problem.

Second, cyanobacteria is caused by organics in the presence of light. Several years ago I battled it twice, maybe 4-5 months apart in the same tank, and in both cases I got rid of it by doing substantial water changes including a very good cleaning of the substrate, keeping the filter very clean, reducing plant fertilizer (liquid) for 3 weeks, and feeding the fish minimally (sufficient, but not more). The organics naturally lowered, and were mainly used up by the plants (photo below shows the plant load).

Byron, when you say "organics," what do you mean specifically? The usual culprits (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates) are all below detectable levels. I don't do liquid ferts. So I'm not sure how to act in this info.

 

[Byron]

Byron, when you say "organics," what do you mean specifically? The usual culprits (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates) are all below detectable levels. I don't do liquid ferts. So I'm not sure how to act in this info.

Ammonia, nitrite, nitrate are not organics, they are forms of nitrogen [I know you know, just wanting to be clear here]. For simplicity, Wikipedia's definition: "Organic matter, organic material, or natural organic matter refers to the large source of carbon-based compounds found within natural and engineered, terrestrial, and aquatic environments. It is matter composed of organic compounds that have come from the feces and remains of organisms such as plants and animals." So in an aquarium, organics includes any organic matter such as dead fish, dead plants, uneaten fish food, fish excrement, dissolved organics in the water, etc.

High organic matter levels can show in nitrate levels, but not necessarily. All that brown gunk in the filter is organic matter. The brown stuff vacuumed out of the substrate is organic matter. There can be high levels of dissolved organics in water--the bacterial bloom is caused by high levels of dissolved organics and the rapid proliferation of bacteria that eat organic matter. The organics can get so numerous it appears as brown fuzz on the roots of floating plants. There are organic blooms (hazy water) not involving the bacteria this time but just a proliferation of organic matter dissolved in the water.

Organics in the presence of light is the cause of cyanobacteria. Removing the organics via increased water changes, cleaning the filter and substrate, not using plant additives (I know you don't, but for those of us who do, temporarily eliminating these can help). keeping the fish stocking within reason, and reducing fish feeding can all help. Sometimes the light is too intense or on for too long to balance and this can help the cyano even with organics not excessive--I had this is an experimental tank in front of the window, and cyano appeared on the back glass.

 

[WhistlingBadger]

Right, nitrates aren't organic. Forgot my freshman chemistry, there. Could tannins be a problem? Lots of tannins in this tank, but they are generally antibacterial. At least they're organic compounds, though, so I'm getting closer.

I cleaned the filter really well yesterday, so we'll see if that helps. If it doesn't, I'm going to have to chemical bomb this stuff. Would prefer to avoid that.

 

[Byron]

Right, nitrates aren't organic. Forgot my freshman chemistry, there. Could tannins be a problem? Lots of tannins in this tank, but they are generally antibacterial. At least they're organic compounds, though, so I'm getting closer.

I cleaned the filter really well yesterday, so we'll see if that helps. If it doesn't, I'm going to have to chemical bomb this stuff. Would prefer to avoid that.

If fish are present, never use any chemicals or antibiotics (yes, they can work, if temporarily) for obvious reasons. The only way to deal with this is increased maintenance. It may take several weeks, but it is the only safe way. I had cyano in my 70g a few years ago, the only tank (aside from the experimental 10g in the window) that has had this. I just persevered, and each week after a 80-85% W/C with a thorough dig into the open substrate, and cleaning the filter media under the tap, I noted that the following week the cyano has increased less, each week, and it disappeared, never to return.

 

[Oblio]

If fish are present, never use any chemicals or antibiotics (yes, they can work, if temporarily) for obvious reasons. The only way to deal with this is increased maintenance. It may take several weeks, but it is the only safe way. I had cyano in my 70g a few years ago, the only tank (aside from the experimental 10g in the window) that has had this. I just persevered, and each week after a 80-85% W/C with a thorough dig into the open substrate, and cleaning the filter media under the tap, I noted that the following week the cyano has increased less, each week, and it disappeared, never to return.

I'm going through this right now, including light intensity reduction. Also cutting back on flake food, using more frozen. It's improving, slowly.