Bloated & Curved Goldfish

[v81tun]

G'day.
 
I need a bit of help!
I do apologise - this is not a tropical fish, it is a giant goldfish, I have taken it on board to try to get it back to better health.
 
So.
This goldfsh came out of my brothers 1000L Aquaponics setup. it is around 30cm long.
It was in with about 20 other goldfish, that are much smaller. (10-15CM)
 
Yesterday Morning my brother messaged me to tell me that the fish was curved and sitting on the bottom of the tank.
 
Since I have known of it the fish has always been pretty miserable. A friend of mine had it in a 4ft tank, put it in a trough because it was miserable, where its health deteriorated.
 
So I took it off her hands, put it in a hospital tank with some Melafix, and it started eating and swimming again. (external bacterial infection)
 
after this it went to the aquaponics setup, where it has been for more than 6 months, it didnt come to the surface like the others though.
 
I took a couple of tests on the water it came out of (I suspected possible nitrate poisoning) Nitrates were 10.
PH I think was 6.4 (but don't quote me)
 
All of the other fish are in perfect health and eating normally.
 
So what's he(she?) doing?
 
Night before - swimming as usual. Next morning sitting on the bottom of the tank , bent or curved in half, a bit more like an L than a C. I took it and put it in a hospital tank.
When nudged, it swims- awkwardly. it appears that one side of the fish is bloated. (not a round bloated. where the fish is bent looks quite... sharp like the corner of a square)
 
I noticed that its vent/anus was red, I don't recall it being like that.
that was yesterday, today I notice the vent is alot bigger and has gone pale. and when the fish moves it leaks out white liquid stuff that dilutes out into the water)
 
so far all I have been able to do is give it melafix and I did a small water change and gave it some metronidazole, just in the hope it could help it in some way.
 
I called two LFS' - one said it could be a vitamin deficiency (after i got off the phone i read up about it and I think the fish generally curve gradually... this one did it overnight)
 
the other pretty much said "yeah i don't know, but we dont hold much hope for fish once they curve like that)
so Neither really gave me an answer that instilled much confidence!
 
I am hoping that it is a gut infection or something and that it is treatable.
 
i don't want to put it out of its mysery if its something that is simple and mendable.
 
Sorry I can't give you any more water parameters. Regardless if it is water quality that has done this, I just want to know how to help the poor guy out.
 
I have attached a couple of photos becaus I am horrid at explaining things.
 
 this is the red vent I was talking about
View attachment 68701
 
 
 
This is the size and colour of the vent today.
View attachment 68702
 
 
 
This is just another photo to show you the shape of the side of the fish.
 

 

[phoenixgsd]

I took a couple of tests on the water it came out of (I suspected possible nitrate poisoning) Nitrates were 10.
PH I think was 6.4 (but don't quote me)

what other tests did you do, ammonia, nitrite? a nitrate reading of 10 is normal and is fine, in the first picture it looks like the scales are sticking out, are they, or that just the picture? it could be dropsy if the scales are sticking out

 

[v81tun]

I took a couple of tests on the water it came out of (I suspected possible nitrate poisoning) Nitrates were 10.
PH I think was 6.4 (but don't quote me)

what other tests did you do, ammonia, nitrite? a nitrate reading of 10 is normal and is fine, in the first picture it looks like the scales are sticking out, are they, or that just the picture? it could be dropsy if the scales are sticking out

I did do a couple others now I recall. Nitrite 0 ammonia 0.

No they are only sticking out where the fish is Bent too far for them to bend with it

 

[mark4785]

It seems to me that it's time on the said trough as probably resulted in the problem you are describing/showing.
 
One of two things usually cause curvature of the spine:
 
1. Complete lack of vitamin C in the diet.
2. Electric shock or bolt of lightening hitting the water column which shatters the spinal bone(s).
 
If it was my fish I would contact an ordinary Veterinary practise in your area and ask for advise on how to best use the metronidazole you have obtained.
 
I think the white pus could be dead white skin cells which would normally tackle an infection. As the infection is coming from within inside the fish, you would need to get it to consume metronidazole, perhaps by injecting an appropriate dose into a vegetable (i.e. a soft pea).

 

[v81tun]

It seems to me that it's time on the said trough as probably resulted in the problem you are describing/showing.
 
One of two things usually cause curvature of the spine:
 
1. Complete lack of vitamin C in the diet.
2. Electric shock or bolt of lightening hitting the water column which shatters the spinal bone(s).
 
If it was my fish I would contact an ordinary Veterinary practise in your area and ask for advise on how to best use the metronidazole you have obtained.
 
I think the white pus could be dead white skin cells which would normally tackle an infection. As the infection is coming from within inside the fish, you would need to get it to consume metronidazole, perhaps by injecting an appropriate dose into a vegetable (i.e. a soft pea).

Thank you for your reply!

Would a lack of vitamins cause this to happen so suddenly? Like over night?
I am doubtful about the electric shock.

I don't know that much but I got the impression it might be curved due to the bloating inside it on the one side, is this possible?

 

[VickyChaiTea]

A few things come to mind when I hear about bent spines. Swim bladder disorder, fish TB (tuberculosis), or some kind of trauma. We can mostly rule out trauma.
 
Swim bladder disorder is of course extremely vague. I think in order to properly diagnose this you'll need to see a vet and have them do blood work or some other kind of diagnostic as well as an X-ray.
 
Fish tuberculosis (Mycobacterium marinum) is characterized by skin lesions, missing scales, wasting, spine bending, and loss of color. It IS contagious to humans to please sanitize any equipment you use for this fish. Treatment is generally kanamycin, though the survival rate is low from what I've read. EDIT: If it is TB, consider every fish it's been in with at risk of carrying the disease.
 
For now... I hesitantly say this is dropsy. If it is, and since you seem to be using metronidazole anyway, get some Metro-Meds. It's medicated goldfish food (metronidazole, Ormetoprim-sulfa and Oxytetracycline) with a good track record of treating dropsy when fed early on. http/www.goldfishconnection.com/shop/details.php?productId=9&catId=5
 
I do hope he gets better. I'm sitting here racking my brain as to what it could be but I really think a vet is a must for a proper diagnosis.

 

[v81tun]

A few things come to mind when I hear about bent spines. Swim bladder disorder, fish TB (tuberculosis), or some kind of trauma. We can mostly rule out trauma.
 
Swim bladder disorder is of course extremely vague. I think in order to properly diagnose this you'll need to see a vet and have them do blood work or some other kind of diagnostic as well as an X-ray.
 
Fish tuberculosis (Mycobacterium marinum) is characterized by skin lesions, missing scales, wasting, spine bending, and loss of color. It IS contagious to humans to please sanitize any equipment you use for this fish. Treatment is generally kanamycin, though the survival rate is low from what I've read. EDIT: If it is TB, consider every fish it's been in with at risk of carrying the disease.
 
For now... I hesitantly say this is dropsy. If it is, and since you seem to be using metronidazole anyway, get some Metro-Meds. It's medicated goldfish food (metronidazole, Ormetoprim-sulfa and Oxytetracycline) with a good track record of treating dropsy when fed early on. http/www.goldfishconnection.com/shop/details.php?productId=9&catId=5]http/www.goldfishconnection.com/shop/details.php?productId=9&catId=5[/url]
 
I do hope he gets better. I'm sitting here racking my brain as to what it could be but I really think a vet is a must for a proper diagnosis.

I spent my Sunday off googling until my phone went flat.
Because of what's happening with its vent I think it's some kind of internal upset.

I am going to get hold of a syringe tonight to try to "force feed" him some
Food laced with metro.
I'm not sure what, that I will think about when it comes time!

Problem with the link: it's in America, I am in Australia, so postage would take over a week :;

 

[mark4785]

It seems to me that it's time on the said trough as probably resulted in the problem you are describing/showing.
 
One of two things usually cause curvature of the spine:
 
1. Complete lack of vitamin C in the diet.
2. Electric shock or bolt of lightening hitting the water column which shatters the spinal bone(s).
 
If it was my fish I would contact an ordinary Veterinary practise in your area and ask for advise on how to best use the metronidazole you have obtained.
 
I think the white pus could be dead white skin cells which would normally tackle an infection. As the infection is coming from within inside the fish, you would need to get it to consume metronidazole, perhaps by injecting an appropriate dose into a vegetable (i.e. a soft pea).

Thank you for your reply!

Would a lack of vitamins cause this to happen so suddenly? Like over night?
I am doubtful about the electric shock.

I don't know that much but I got the impression it might be curved due to the bloating inside it on the one side, is this possible?

 
A lack of vitamins would not cause any curvature suddenly; it would slowly develop over several months in response to malnutrition. You could also get spinal curvature in an adult fish that had prolonged exposure to inappropriate water conditions prior to birth.
 
The only thing that causes sudden curvature is spinal damage caused by an electrical current (i.e. faulty UV light or thunderbolt) interacting with the water.
 
I think the bloating is a separate issue as the weight of the bloat on one side of the fish is lessened in water compared to air so it wouldn't normally cause the fishes body to bend.
 
Are you able to get the fish to eat at all? If not it will be futile trying to treat the fish and you would perhaps need to consider euthanasia.

 

[v81tun]

The fish does not seem to be eating, just sits miserably at the bottom of the tank,
When I last treated it it was not eating either, but soon started.

I think I will try "force feeding" it some medicated food, if that doesn't work, I would opt to put it to sleep.

My heart breaks for it every time I see it

But like I said I don't want to give up on it too easily when there is something that can be done.

 

[mark4785]

The fish does not seem to be eating, just sits miserably at the bottom of the tank, When I last treated it it was not eating either, but soon started. I think I will try "force feeding" it some medicated food, if that doesn't work, I would opt to put it to sleep. My heart breaks for it every time I see it

But like I said I don't want to give up on it too easily when there is something that can be done.

 
If you want to do your best for the fish I would recommend contacting a Veterinary practice and asking them if they have any experience/knowledge of working with fish. You should try and speak to a qualified vet when asking these questions rather than somebody who wants your cash that will ultimately pay their wages (i.e. customer service receptionist). Describe the problem to them like you have here (send a picture of the fish to them via e-mail if possible) and then, and if on their advice, take it to the surgery so that they can do what they need to do to positively identify the internal infection. They will most definitely recommend some kind of medication to blend into a food paste. For your best chance at getting the fish to consume it you will need to ask the previous owners what, in their opinion, the fishes favourite food was to consume when it was healthy.
 
Note: the curvature is not actually a disease so they won't be looking to treat this.
 
Like I've said though, if the fish won't eat the Vet isn't going to logically want to treat the fish as nothing can survive without food.

 

[v81tun]

Thank you for your time and efforts, but "big Harry" didn't make it through last night.
I still have no idea what was wrong with him. It would be nice to know though!
Thanks again,
Nikki.

 

[Flute]

So sorry to hear that Nikki Have been scratching my head since you first posted trying to come up with something that might help, but his case left me completely stumped. Good on you for giving him a chance though