Black Moor V Oranda

[GR2008]

Hi all as you can probably tell I am new to the site & would like some advice as the internet seems to give you about 9 different answers for 1 single question!

I will try be as brief as possible!

I went to my local pet shop Friday & bought a black moor & oranda, I told him I had a 30ltr bowl & asked if this would suffice, he said yes...

I then went to another larger pet shop who said no they wont survive in there due to oxygen needs etc so I ended up buying a 65ltr tank with under gravel filter thingy, some plants, gravel etc.

Got the tank set up, cleaned the stones for 3 hours, put water in, put the aqua safe in, fired the filter up & let it sit for about 36 hours.

During this time my bowl still housed my new mates & I had changed a bit of the water to get rid of the cloud that was now appearing.

Now rehomed my mates, Pepe & Piggy, sorry no I cant explain those names & they seemed happy enough.

Yesterday I noticed the Oranda had a little 'whitespot' near his eye so I ordered some Tetra Goldmed as I understand this is good for it... today it seems to have got worse, a couple more close by. Still waiting on the Goldmed... should I just go buy some from the shop?

Neither of the fish seem to be swimming oddly & the Oranda is like a mobile food cleaner (they are on stress zyme for now & a bit of bloodworm) poor Pepe the Blackmoor seems to get the scraps! I had noticed also today that the blackmoor chases the Oranda round the tank & kind of butts/kisses him which I found a bit weird, is this normal, is it a sign of affection, does he know the Oranda isnt well??

Finally I would like to ask a few Q's please so here goes...

1. Should these guys be together in a tank or would I be better with 2 of the same?

2. Does the water need to be at a certain temperature other than room temp, I've read all sorts from the net?

3. If it is Whitespot, which I guess it sounds like it could be do I need to do anything other than a partial water change & add the goldmed?

That's all for now folks!!

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

Cheers

G

 

[Sunny_Bee]

Congrats on the new fish

Here goes for your questions...

I had noticed also today that the blackmoor chases the Oranda round the tank & kind of butts/kisses him which I found a bit weird, is this normal, is it a sign of affection, does he know the Oranda isnt well??

Is he chasing and butting at the Oranda's bum? If so, it could be spawning behaviour. If it's not too agressive I wouldn't worry about it.

1. Should these guys be together in a tank or would I be better with 2 of the same?

They can be together, fancy goldfish are all the same species, just different varities.

2. Does the water need to be at a certain temperature other than room temp, I've read all sorts from the net?

In my experience, no. I wouldn't heat the tank, unless they're in a basement or something that gets really cold or if the temp really fluctuates.

3. If it is Whitespot, which I guess it sounds like it could be do I need to do anything other than a partial water change & add the goldmed?

I'm wondering about this....does it look like a grain of salt, or is it more fluffy? It could be ich, fungus or just normal wen growth. A picture would really help. Since your tank is new it's cycling, so any meds aren't going to help that, I'd wait until you were sure before you medicate.

Also, one more thing. I've come to learn that undergravel filters really don't cut it for goldfish in the long run, they just cause nasty ammonia and nitrite build ups. Goldfish make a LOT of waste so the bigger the filter the better. I currently have 3 fancies in a 50 gallon and I have 2 large aquaclear filters running on there. If you can get your hands on a nice big filter, one that's rated for a tank larger than the fish are in, this would help.

 

[GR2008]

Congrats on the new fish

Here goes for your questions...

I had noticed also today that the blackmoor chases the Oranda round the tank & kind of butts/kisses him which I found a bit weird, is this normal, is it a sign of affection, does he know the Oranda isnt well??

Is he chasing and butting at the Oranda's bum? If so, it could be spawning behaviour. If it's not too agressive I wouldn't worry about it.

1. Should these guys be together in a tank or would I be better with 2 of the same?

They can be together, fancy goldfish are all the same species, just different varities.

2. Does the water need to be at a certain temperature other than room temp, I've read all sorts from the net?

In my experience, no. I wouldn't heat the tank, unless they're in a basement or something that gets really cold or if the temp really fluctuates.

3. If it is Whitespot, which I guess it sounds like it could be do I need to do anything other than a partial water change & add the goldmed?

I'm wondering about this....does it look like a grain of salt, or is it more fluffy? It could be ich, fungus or just normal wen growth. A picture would really help. Since your tank is new it's cycling, so any meds aren't going to help that, I'd wait until you were sure before you medicate.

Also, one more thing. I've come to learn that undergravel filters really don't cut it for goldfish in the long run, they just cause nasty ammonia and nitrite build ups. Goldfish make a LOT of waste so the bigger the filter the better. I currently have 3 fancies in a 50 gallon and I have 2 large aquaclear filters running on there. If you can get your hands on a nice big filter, one that's rated for a tank larger than the fish are in, this would help.

Thanks for your help Sunny Bee!

Yes it does seem to be more at the Oranda's bum more but it's other parts of the body aswell. If it is spawning behaviour do I need to do anything else?

In relation to your question about it being a spot or a bit fluffy I would say it is fluffy, I will try get a photo today & upload it.

Just going back to the filter, its the type with the plate under the stones, which fills the floor of the tank with a powerhead that sits in the corner, a tube runs up the side & a pipe with holes in that then runs just above the water line & channels water back in. Is this what you understand me to have as I wasnt very clear in my description?

Thanks again for your help so far, it's appreciated!!

 

[GR2008]

Hi all I have tried to get a good photo but it's pretty tricky when they never stay still, however you can make out the white marks aroubd the eye


Hmm I cant seem to upload the photo here so I have added it to media fire

Just click the link below, when it opens the medifire site on the right it says view full image, just click that

[URL="http/www.mediafire.com/?iujtiecv3yf"]http/www.mediafire.com/?iujtiecv3yf[/URL]

Thanks all

 

[Sunny_Bee]

Hi again

Yes that sounds like you have a bit of romance happening. You don't need to do anything unless the female looks like she's getting injured. If they spawn they'll just eat the eggs if you don't remove them, so it's nothing to worry about unless the female becomes impacted or something. However, I've had plenty of fish exhibit spawning behaviour and never lay an egg. (I actually have a male right now who chases his male tank mate this way.... )

The filter does sound like the troublesome type. My advice is keep an eye on the ammonia and nitrites. I'd still suggest that you try a waterfall or canister type, if you have a bit of extra cash. My goldies are so messy that I actually have a bare bottomed tank with just some potted plants and river stones. When I had gravel in there I could not keep the nitrates down.

The spot looks like wen growth
It can look quite a bit like fungus and many people do treat it mistakenly. If you can get a better focused pic that would be good, but I know it's hard to do. I'll check my pics later and see if I have a clear one, I used to have an oranda with constant white patches on his wen because it grew so big and fast...I'm sure I have a clear pic kicking around somewhere.

 

[GR2008]

Hi again

Yes that sounds like you have a bit of romance happening. You don't need to do anything unless the female looks like she's getting injured. If they spawn they'll just eat the eggs if you don't remove them, so it's nothing to worry about unless the female becomes impacted or something. However, I've had plenty of fish exhibit spawning behaviour and never lay an egg. (I actually have a male right now who chases his male tank mate this way.... )

The filter does sound like the troublesome type. My advice is keep an eye on the ammonia and nitrites. I'd still suggest that you try a waterfall or canister type, if you have a bit of extra cash. My goldies are so messy that I actually have a bare bottomed tank with just some potted plants and river stones. When I had gravel in there I could not keep the nitrates down.

The spot looks like wen growth
It can look quite a bit like fungus and many people do treat it mistakenly. If you can get a better focused pic that would be good, but I know it's hard to do. I'll check my pics later and see if I have a clear one, I used to have an oranda with constant white patches on his wen because it grew so big and fast...I'm sure I have a clear pic kicking around somewhere.

Thanks again Sunny, Im going to try get a better photo this evening, however the story now takes another twist.... it seems I have been misinformed as my supposed Oranda doesnt have a dorsal fin, so that would make it either a Lionhead or Ranchu although I have now seen something called an eggfish which it does look v similar to...

Is it still possibly wen growth or could it be my initial thought?

Thanks

 

[Sunny_Bee]

Yes, I still think it's probably wen growth, but a better pic will help. I found a pic of my old oranda growing his, does this look familiar? (not too close up, but hopefully you can see it)

As for the breed, lionheads and ranchus can be hard to tell apart, I think egg fish may just be another name for the varieites (or maybe the name of a VERY rare varieity...can't quite remember!). Your new girl actually looks a lot like one I just got a few weeks ago

 

[GR2008]

Thanks for the reply Sunny, it seems the whitespots are now turning pink so probably wen growth like you said... however another twist is that the blackmoor seems to be sitting on the bottom now & just floating there, not upside down just as if it's resting. I've put a few peas in as suggested elsewhere but he isnt bothered for eating either, he shifts around now & again then just goes in to rest mode, any ideas?

Thanks

 

[Sunny_Bee]

That's good news about the wen growth. Can you test your water? My guess is the tank isn't cycled and you're getting ammonia and/or nitrite buildingn up, in which case you need to do a big water change asap.

 

[GR2008]

That's good news about the wen growth. Can you test your water? My guess is the tank isn't cycled and you're getting ammonia and/or nitrite buildingn up, in which case you need to do a big water change asap.

Hi Sunny, Ive done a 25% water change today, put some tetra aquasafe in also, I also added about 30ml of stresszyme as recommended by a pet shop & added some salts just in case, I guess its a case of wait & see what happens now, Im going to take a sample down tomorrow & see what they say seen as the slack #### who I ordered my testing kit from still hasnt sent it!!

Fingers crossed we have a happy ending!!

 

[Sunny_Bee]

Sounds good, good luck with the water testing! I think that you probably just need to get them through the cycle, keep up the water changes and maybe cut down on the food (goldfish are fine with being fed once a day)

 

[GR2008]

Sounds good, good luck with the water testing! I think that you probably just need to get them through the cycle, keep up the water changes and maybe cut down on the food (goldfish are fine with being fed once a day)

Water was tested today & all was fine, seems he's just unlucky or I am!! Doesnt look good though so will keep you posted.

Thanks for all your help though sunny, its really appreciated

 

[GR2008]

Well Pepe the Black Moor didnt make it, no idea what it could have been apart from a bad batch, water was all fine just seemed to give up the ghost! Now Piggy seems very lonely bless, going to see how she goes for a week then maybe introduce another

 

[Sunny_Bee]

Awww sorry to hear you lost the moor. I say get another for sure, goldies always seem happier with buddies