Black Moor Goldfish: Eye Torn

[Ray Ray]

Okay, so I was temporarily housing my Black Moor Goldfish in a 2.5 gallon tank with my red female Betta. These fish were in no way big. My Black Moor was about, 3 inches long, and the female betta around the same size. They also live with three little Neons and a Cory Cat. Okay so, my Black Moor and my Betta got along great. During feeding time, they NEVER bothered eachother and no fin nipping was occuring. I've had them in the tank for about a week.

My Black Moor had a goldish tint to him which made him very pretty. He was a happy little fish, getting enough food, and friendly around all the other fish.

But, last night, I noticed he was laying on his side, not really tangled in a long plant, but looking like he was trying not to be moved along the current of the filter. From closer inspection I saw his stomach and a little up was turning white! I was very suprised because earler that day he was pure black with his gold tint, no white to be found. Also, his fins seemed to be like.. detached? I wasn't sure what that was about. Like they were kinda, shreddy? I don't know, no fin nipping occured, but from my past goldfish, his fins stayed attached? I'm not sure if you know what I mean, but anyways... Then, I looked at his eye, and saw it was hanging halfway off! I was horrifed, I didn't know what to do. He was struggling to swim. I had untangled him and he tried to swim but then got caught again. I had put him in the goldfish bowl I own so no one bothered him. A few minutes later, he died. I didn't know what to do since I had no medications or anything to help.

My tank temperature is between 74-76 degrees. The ammonia level is just fine.

Does anyone know what could have caused his eye to become detatched? And I really don't want to blame my Betta because she's been a very good girl.

 

[roseK]

thats a pretty full 2.5 gallon

 

[Ray Ray]

That's a reason why I said "temporary". Plus my Black Moor was not very big, and when he did grow bigger, I would have had a bigger tank by then.
I was given the neons by my Aunt, and she knew no one else with a tank, so I had to take them. And I couldn't put any of my fish in the bowl, I already made that mistake (tho surpringly the goldfish lived 5 months with me and 6 with another person).
But anyways, that really doesn't help me out.

I need to know a possibility why my Black Moor's eye got torn off, why it changed white within a small amount of time, etc. ._.

This is what the tank looks like [but not my tank, I have less items and fish in mine.

Also, mine has a filter, and a heater for winter.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Your tank was too small for your goldfish even as a temporary place, the goldfish outgrew that tank a long time ago, it should really be in at least a 10gallon tank if was 3inches long, if you kept it in the tank much longer the goldfish will probably get bad stunted growth. Black moores grow to 10inches long and should no be kept in anything less than 20gallons long in the long term.
Did the tank have any filtration? What was the ammonia level in the tank exactly? The whiteness on his stomach sounds like the start of columnaris, while the fin damage was probably finrot, the eye damage could had been numerous things really...

What fish do you have in the tank now exactly and how many? The only fish which is suitable for your tank is the female betta.

 

[Ray Ray]

I have only had the tank for a week. Wow, I am NEVER asking those people at the stores anymore, I'll give you the man's exact quote:
"Yes, you can house your Black Moor with the Female Betta with a few other small fish, as long as you move the Black Moor in a few months when it outgrows the tank"

Wow I feel horrible now. That fish was my favourite, he was very pretty, and I slowly killed him.

Yes the tank has a filter, and my ammonia tester has a little chart that says "safe, alert, alarm, then toxic"
it was on safe.

And in there now is my Betta, the small Cory Cat, and the three little Neons. I am a little concerned about the Neons though because I know Neons usually swim together, but these three go their seperate ways, while only two sometimes swim together.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

I have only had the tank for a week. Wow, I am NEVER asking those people at the stores anymore, I'll give you the man's exact quote:
"Yes, you can house your Black Moor with the Female Betta with a few other small fish, as long as you move the Black Moor in a few months when it outgrows the tank"

Wow I feel horrible now. That fish was my favourite, he was very pretty, and I slowly killed him.

Yes the tank has a filter, and my ammonia tester has a little chart that says "safe, alert, alarm, then toxic"
it was on safe.

And in there now is my Betta, the small Cory Cat, and the three little Neons. I am a little concerned about the Neons though because I know Neons usually swim together, but these three go their seperate ways, while only two sometimes swim together.

Yes petshop advice tends to be pretty bad, when i got into fishkeeping over 4years ago i naturally thought petshops would be the best places for advice when it came to fish, but i got told so much bad advice and "fishkeeping myths" my tanks turned into disasters and i had fish dying everywhere. It wasn't until i started doing my own research online that i actually started to learn the right things about fishkeeping, and since then my fish have been healthy and happy ever since .

Shoaling is a defensive behaviour in fish like neons, they do it mostly when they feel threatened or stressed. If yours do not shoal regularly then it is a good sign that they feel safe in the tank, however, 3 neons is not really enough for them to shoal properly either way- technically most people consider a shoal of fish to be a group of 6-10 fish of a shoaling species of fish. Neons tend to do a lot better in the long term when kept in decent sized shoals, i would advise upgrading the tank to something around 10gals+ and increasing the neons numbers to 6 .

 

[-germ-]

I have only had the tank for a week. Wow, I am NEVER asking those people at the stores anymore, I'll give you the man's exact quote:
"Yes, you can house your Black Moor with the Female Betta with a few other small fish, as long as you move the Black Moor in a few months when it outgrows the tank"

Wow I feel horrible now. That fish was my favourite, he was very pretty, and I slowly killed him.

Yes the tank has a filter, and my ammonia tester has a little chart that says "safe, alert, alarm, then toxic"
it was on safe.

And in there now is my Betta, the small Cory Cat, and the three little Neons. I am a little concerned about the Neons though because I know Neons usually swim together, but these three go their seperate ways, while only two sometimes swim together.

In additions to Tokis-Phoenix comments;
I think that your tank (at the moment) is uncycled, bad news, have you heard of tank cycling or has anyone here explained it to you?
The plastic stick on testers are generally considered to be useless
Edited for stupidity.

 

[Ray Ray]

@ Tokis-Phoenix: I am sorry to hear about your past experiences. One of mine was my goldfish bowl phase, I feel very bad for my fish that I had in there. =(

And yeah I knew that I probably didn't recieve enough Neons. When I went to the store, asking about them before I had any, the lady tried to give me only two. Even I knew better than that.

And yeah, I'm onyl concerned on how they eat. They never seem to go up when the food was up in. Only my Black Moor and Betta went up. Although at times I saw one or two snap a flake or two. I wasn't sure if that's all they ate becauseof their size or if they felt threatened by the two larger fish.

And I will try to get a larger tank, though it is kept in my room, and I'm not sure how big of a tnk my parents will let me have. I will probably get a bigger one and keep the 2.5 as a hospital tank. [=

@ -germ-: You ninja posted me, hehe. Anyways, No. No one explained that to me. And the thermometer seems to work fine. I only bought the ammonia one of my goldfish, who I miss dearly, because I heard they excrete alot of it. But I guess it's better to hate it then not.

 

[-germ-]

.

 

[-germ-]

Erm ....
My biggest worry for your fish would be the need for cycling.
You need to be performing water changes daily at the moment, without a cycle having taken place ammonia then nitrite will build up in your tank.
Possibly stressing them, making illness more likely, possibly poisoning them and almost undoubtedly weakening them in the long run.
This is probably related to your damaged fish, especially considering the overstocking.
How are you going to treat the black moor?

 

[Ray Ray]

So i should be changing my water every day, like take half of it out? I also have "Tap Water Dechlorniator" and "Ammonia Remover". I will ask my mom when she gets home to help me with it.

And my Black Moor died within minutes. I am going to change the water when my parents get home incase there is anything bad in the water from that. You see I left for a little while, and when I returned I found him lying in a plant, turning white quickly, with his fins all "detched" from eachother, and one of his eyes half attached. I wasn't sure what really caused it but I doubt my Betta attacked him because she's a very nice one, surpisingly.

I had put him in my fish bowl so the other fish wouldn't bother him, and that he wouldn't get sucked in (if possible) by the filter and he didn't get carried away with it. I had no clue how to help him and I really had no time.

I also saw him eating the Cory's food once, not sure if that effected him at all.

 

[-germ-]

Theres every chance he got nipped due to whatever illness afflicted him then again it could have been aggression, you can't predict any fishes temperment just make an assumption based on your or/and others experience.
I will assume your knowledge is fairly minimal (no offence) and start from the top;
1) Basically most fish release ammonia pretty much constantly as urine and via their poohs, it is also released during the decomposition of excess food. This is oxidized by nitrosomonas bacteria, which converts the ammonia into nitrite (also toxic), this is then broken down by nitrobacter into nitrate (which while toxic has to get to a high level to be dangerous and is normally kept at a safe level by weekly water changes).

2) Most experienced fish keepers choose to perform fishless cycles, by adding ammonia in a liquid form they don't have to add any fish thus preventing any risk to fishes health. You are now performing a fish in cycle. You need to be very good with water changes as you are overstocked as it is, hence more ammonia than the average tank you hear of on TFF. I'd reccomend 3 smaller (20%) water changes daily, so as to prevent stressing your fish. It may be wise to purchase some SeaChem Prime as a dechlorinator, this will help detoxify your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. This is the method i have used for 3 fish in cycles.

3) What/whoever was responsible for the moors death no longer matters, the cories food would'nt have had an effect. As Tokis said Columnaris is a potential cause. Water quality should be of the utmost concern.

4) Questions;
How much do you feed and how often?
Is there any funny colouration on the remaining fish?
Is the waters surface disturbed by your filter?
(in such a small, uncycled tank there will be less oxygen than is ideal).
What make is the ammonia remover, is it a filter pad, liquid etc?

 

[-germ-]

Handy link;
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=113861

 

[Ray Ray]

4) Questions;
How much do you feed and how often?
Is there any funny colouration on the remaining fish?
Is the waters surface disturbed by your filter?
(in such a small, uncycled tank there will be less oxygen than is ideal).
What make is the ammonia remover, is it a filter pad, liquid etc?

I feed the fish a small pinch twice a day of TetraMin: Tropical Flakes. I wasn't sure if this was right, because I know Goldfish are not Tropical fish. I was thinking of taking him out to feed him, because I have Top Fin: Goldfish Flakes from my previous goldfish. But this is what the man at the store gave us.

The Betta seems to have a little bit of white outlined on her fins but I'm not sure if that's what you're talking about. The Cory and the Neons look fine.

Umm I'm not sure what you mean by the "the water's surface disturbed by your filter".

The ammonia remover is made by Top Fin. And it is a liquid.

 

[-germ-]

I feed the fish a small pinch twice a day of TetraMin: Tropical Flakes. I wasn't sure if this was right, because I know Goldfish are not Tropical fish. I was thinking of taking him out to feed him, because I have Top Fin: Goldfish Flakes from my previous goldfish. But this is what the man at the store gave us.

The Betta seems to have a little bit of white outlined on her fins but I'm not sure if that's what you're talking about. The Cory and the Neons look fine.

Umm I'm not sure what you mean by the "the water's surface disturbed by your filter".

The ammonia remover is made by Top Fin. And it is a liquid.

I'm not reffering solely to your goldfish, i'm reffering to your tank in general, with its current inhabitants. Unless you are careful there is every chance that the other fish will die or have their health compromised.
Until your tank is cycled i'd feed once a day at most, most of my fish get fed once daily, if lucky, overfeeding can cause serious health problems, particularly in an uncycled tank. The tropical food will be fine for your goldfish. Another thing to keep in mind is that there are household foods that can benefit your fish.
The Bettas colouration may just be her standard colouration but i'd monitor this as fin rot is a risk particularly concering Betta and especially consideing you've had a death recently.
The filter pushes water out somewhere? Does the filter outlet create any movement (ripples) at the surface?
Don't know Topfin, be careful with its use, there are many similar products that don't actually do anything beneficial, other ammonia removers/lockers/detoxifiers are credited with causing serious and lethal ammonia spikes.
I may sound like i'm being a bit grim, i am, but realistic too, i'm also trying to bring you up to speed with the knowledge neccessary(?) for the long term health of your fish. I had a similar situation to you when i began fish keeping and know exactly how it feels.