Black Hair Algae and Unknown

[Byron]

See when I did the peroxide dip, I used water hot enough I could barely stand to put my hand in it, I was afraid of going hotter and killing the plant. Afterwards, I scraped the crap out of the whole spider wood piece, trimmed off any roots that had it on it, rinsed it real well and stuck it back in the tank. Within a week that fungus was back on the wood and the plant connected to it had the algae growing on it again. If you think the plant can withstand hotter water, I will toss some on the stove and get it right below boiling and dip it in there again, without peroxide after everyones recommendations.

I do not know how effective this may be. Fungus comes from the wood itself, so every time you remove it more will appear. I had this on a similar piece of wood, only mine was the toxic fungus and fortunately I found that out before losing any fish; others have not been so lucky. If the fungus you have is non-toxic, it may not be much of an issue, but that is your call.

 

[Byron]

I just went out today and picked up a Phosphate, Calcium and Copper test kit to check all those in the tank. Our tap water is really bad around here, I know of a lot of people who go to our local fish store to get water from them because of it. I did pick up Seachem root tabs today also, killed the light back to 8 hours, killed the blue light entirely. Hopefully this takes care of the Algae issue I have going on and then I can focus on helping the plants recover.

I agree with Steven's post above, just so you know.

The tests for copper, etc, are all well and good if you have too much of these which could endanger fish, but I would not use them as any basis for adding nutrients. You are using Flourish Comp and everything is in that (aside from the oxygen, hydrogen and carbon) and in proportion to each other which is important for plants. You are running a natural low-tech setup and overdosing of "x" can cause plants to shut down assimilation of "y" so it is important not to overdose "x" or whatever. Calcium would not usually have a problem like this, but copper can, and phosphate beyond what occurs from fish foods is not necessary.

I have zero GH/KH water, so no calcium or magnesium or other minerals. I use Flourish Tabs, and these alone ended my calcium deficiency. And Flourish Comp just once a week has kept the upper plants thriving. I have more plants in some of my tanks than you do, so these products really are all that is needed.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

As an unrelated side note your pleco, cories and loaches thrive in soft water so adding cuttlefish bone and coral will reduce their lifespan. OTOH the platies and mollies require very hard water and at the levels you quote are likely to be sickly and short lived. My suggestion is to choose if you want to keep hard or soft water fish and give them the appropriate water conditions. If your tap water is soft (my assumption as you are adding these to increase hardness) it makes for a much easier life if you choose to keep soft water fish. It isn't really possible to create a healthy environment for your combination.

Not to nitpick, you always give excellent advice, @seangee ! But due to my having hard tapwater, I was delighted to discover that corydoras aeneus are one of the few cory species that do well even in relatively hard water. Seriously Fish gives a range of 36 - 268ppm. From the brief look at them in the photos OP shared, he does seem to have bronze cories.

So depending on the GH you set up for the mollies and platies new tank, the cories may be better off moving in with them, OP. But the upper range of the cories GH is close to lower end of the range for mollies, so you'd need to be careful and be sure. Personally, I'd want the cories and the clown loaches in different tanks, both because of the water condition requirements and because loaches are much faster and more aggressive, so the cories could be easily intimidated away from the food. You have a lot of bottom feeding species competing for food and space. Both cories and loaches also need to be in larger groups of 6 plus and 5 plus, respectively. Clown loaches require a huge tank because of the massive size they reach and their minimum numbers, but since they grow slowly, they can be grown out in smaller tanks, as long as the keeper knows about and avoids stunting.

I use Flourish Excel, API Root Tabs and Flourish in the tank now. Root Tabs every 2 weeks (just started this a month ago) and the Flourish & Flourish Excel every 3 days. The substrate I use had fertilizer in it also I stir up every few weeks.

What substrate did you use? I have a feeling that this might not be helping...

 

[IR_Crayoneater]

I agree with Steven's post above, just so you know.

The tests for copper, etc, are all well and good if you have too much of these which could endanger fish, but I would not use them as any basis for adding nutrients. You are using Flourish Comp and everything is in that (aside from the oxygen, hydrogen and carbon) and in proportion to each other which is important for plants. You are running a natural low-tech setup and overdosing of "x" can cause plants to shut down assimilation of "y" so it is important not to overdose "x" or whatever. Calcium would not usually have a problem like this, but copper can, and phosphate beyond what occurs from fish foods is not necessary.

I have zero GH/KH water, so no calcium or magnesium or other minerals. I use Flourish Tabs, and these alone ended my calcium deficiency. And Flourish Comp just once a week has kept the upper plants thriving. I have more plants in some of my tanks than you do, so these products really are all that is needed.

I am going to wait to introduce the tabs for about a week or after killing the lighting time. I dont want to make to many changes at one time. I stopped using the Excel and I am going to start using the liquid flourish only once a week like you recommended. I wanted this tank to be as low tech and "natural" as possible.

 

[IR_Crayoneater]

Not to nitpick, you always give excellent advice, @seangee ! But due to my having hard tapwater, I was delighted to discover that corydoras aeneus are one of the few cory species that do well even in relatively hard water. Seriously Fish gives a range of 36 - 268ppm. From the brief look at them in the photos OP shared, he does seem to have bronze cories.

So depending on the GH you set up for the mollies and platies new tank, the cories may be better off moving in with them, OP. But the upper range of the cories GH is close to lower end of the range for mollies, so you'd need to be careful and be sure. Personally, I'd want the cories and the clown loaches in different tanks, both because of the water condition requirements and because loaches are much faster and more aggressive, so the cories could be easily intimidated away from the food. You have a lot of bottom feeding species competing for food and space. Both cories and loaches also need to be in larger groups of 6 plus and 5 plus, respectively. Clown loaches require a huge tank because of the massive size they reach and their minimum numbers, but since they grow slowly, they can be grown out in smaller tanks, as long as the keeper knows about and avoids stunting.

What substrate did you use? I have a feeling that this might not be helping...

I have not set up a new tank yet (trying to find room between 2 squirrels, 3 dogs and cats) I tested the KH & GH last night in the tank where everything is. KH-4 drops- 71.6ppm, GH-8 drops-143.2ppm. Took it to the local store today and they got the exact same results (just to make sure my tests didnt go bad). The cories and loaches seem to do well in groups of 3 each, I know they should be larger but I dont have the tank space at the moment. They hang around each other all the time and I have never seen aggression between them (the loaches will go after the mollies during feeding sometimes). I wouldnt say they are "trained" but when I feed the corries go to one side of the tank where I drop the algae disks and sinking pellets and the loaches go to the other side where flakes and sinking pellets are dropped, just to keep them separated during feeding, then the loaches and corries go back to hanging around each other. The clown Pleco hangs out inside/on the large piece of driftwood 24/7 since I put him in the tank in January, my wife hates him because he doesnt move lol.

This is the substrate I have, that I used in my 30gal also, when I transferred to larger tank I took 1/2 the old substrate out and mixed it with the new substrate into the 55 gal. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002DH0QM/?tag=ff0d01-20

 

[Byron]

Oh dear...well, there is no point in pussy-footing around, or ignoring serious issues, not only because doing so doesn't help you @IR_Crayoneater but some inexperienced members may see "x" and assume that's true/OK when it isn't. So, there are a few things to mention, and I am not enjoying pointing them out but I have no choice.

Eco-complete is not a suitable substrate for cories. It is not just the roughness (it is, compared to river sand), but there is a bacterial issue with plant substrates and they should never be used in cory tanks (I would not want loaches over these either, for the same reasons). While some loaches are perfectly fine with gravel (provided it is not rough), others are better with sand; but all cories need sand because they are filter feeders--there are so many videos online showing cories upending into the sand, coming out with a mouthful, filtering out any microscopic food, and expelling the sand via the gills. They cannot do this with non-sand, nor rough sand as it will damage them. I'll return to some general advice as to why this does really matter below, after responding to another issue.

And this is the numbers. There are now scientific studies proving the detrimental effects of small groups of a shoaling species compared to larger groups. Cories and loaches are especially social fish. With cories it is simply "safety in numbers," as they naturally occur in groups numbering in the hundreds. In the aquarium, the larger the group, they will always be less "bothered" which is another way of saying less stressed, and that means healthier fish. Loaches take this further, and develop hierarchies within the group. This need is heightened in clown loaches. This loach also gets very large, 8-12 inches, and needs at minimum a 6-foot tank, and a group of five (or more). However, adding more now, is not always the best idea. Doesn't matter with cories, they are non-combative and will readily accept more of the species, or other species. Not loaches.

"Seem to do well" is something we see so often, along with the similar "my fish are doing fine in spite of your advice, thank you very much" or words to that effect. This is not at all likely to be the case. First, unless we can talk to a fish, we cannot possibly know this. I know a couple members on TFF don't agree with me on this, fine; but it is a scientific fact that fish do not display their "comfort" even if they are swimming, eating and spawning. It is certainly true that when things get really bad, the fish will show it through their respiration, inactivity, or whatever, but this is not the case otherwise. Fish like all animals have a very strong will to survive, and reproduce, and they will at least try to do this even in inappropriate environments we force upon them. Read the two citations in my signature block, from knowledgeable aquarists (one a biologist authority on cichlids). The only way we can assume that fish are "OK" with life is if we know what they "expect" and provide it. The above substrate sand for cories for example. They will continue to swim, eat and even spawn over gravel, but that does not mean they are "happy" with life. I'm not sure a fish can have emotions--not everyone agrees they can feel pain, much less emotions--but providing the species with what it requires and expects is more likely to satisfy it...but the bottom line here is that stress again. Fish that do not have what they expect are under stress, period. And this is not externally obvious for weeks, even months, but it can be there weakening the fish.

All of the above has to do with genetics. Every species of freshwater fish on this planet evolved to function in a very specific environment--which includes the water parameters, habitat features (sand, gravel, wood, rocks, plants, light, water flow) and other species if any. With shoaling species, it includes the need for numbers of them. These requirements are programmed into the genetic make-up of the species. And they do not change except by evolution over time, and longer time periods than a few years. This is what Dr. Loiselle is getting at in the citation.

Many of us have over the years got ourselves into difficulties with our fish. It happens, but we learn (the hard way, sadly). With all the destruction we are forcing on ecosystems, resulting in species extinction at the fastest rate ever, we have learned that we cannot change things to suit our thinking if it is denying an animal something it considers necessary for life.

 

[IR_Crayoneater]

Oh dear...well, there is no point in pussy-footing around, or ignoring serious issues, not only because doing so doesn't help you @IR_Crayoneater but some inexperienced members may see "x" and assume that's true/OK when it isn't. So, there are a few things to mention, and I am not enjoying pointing them out but I have no choice.

Eco-complete is not a suitable substrate for cories. It is not just the roughness (it is, compared to river sand), but there is a bacterial issue with plant substrates and they should never be used in cory tanks (I would not want loaches over these either, for the same reasons). While some loaches are perfectly fine with gravel (provided it is not rough), others are better with sand; but all cories need sand because they are filter feeders--there are so many videos online showing cories upending into the sand, coming out with a mouthful, filtering out any microscopic food, and expelling the sand via the gills. They cannot do this with non-sand, nor rough sand as it will damage them. I'll return to some general advice as to why this does really matter below, after responding to another issue.

And this is the numbers. There are now scientific studies proving the detrimental effects of small groups of a shoaling species compared to larger groups. Cories and loaches are especially social fish. With cories it is simply "safety in numbers," as they naturally occur in groups numbering in the hundreds. In the aquarium, the larger the group, they will always be less "bothered" which is another way of saying less stressed, and that means healthier fish. Loaches take this further, and develop hierarchies within the group. This need is heightened in clown loaches. This loach also gets very large, 8-12 inches, and needs at minimum a 6-foot tank, and a group of five (or more). However, adding more now, is not always the best idea. Doesn't matter with cories, they are non-combative and will readily accept more of the species, or other species. Not loaches.

"Seem to do well" is something we see so often, along with the similar "my fish are doing fine in spite of your advice, thank you very much" or words to that effect. This is not at all likely to be the case. First, unless we can talk to a fish, we cannot possibly know this. I know a couple members on TFF don't agree with me on this, fine; but it is a scientific fact that fish do not display their "comfort" even if they are swimming, eating and spawning. It is certainly true that when things get really bad, the fish will show it through their respiration, inactivity, or whatever, but this is not the case otherwise. Fish like all animals have a very strong will to survive, and reproduce, and they will at least try to do this even in inappropriate environments we force upon them. Read the two citations in my signature block, from knowledgeable aquarists (one a biologist authority on cichlids). The only way we can assume that fish are "OK" with life is if we know what they "expect" and provide it. The above substrate sand for cories for example. They will continue to swim, eat and even spawn over gravel, but that does not mean they are "happy" with life. I'm not sure a fish can have emotions--not everyone agrees they can feel pain, much less emotions--but providing the species with what it requires and expects is more likely to satisfy it...but the bottom line here is that stress again. Fish that do not have what they expect are under stress, period. And this is not externally obvious for weeks, even months, but it can be there weakening the fish.

All of the above has to do with genetics. Every species of freshwater fish on this planet evolved to function in a very specific environment--which includes the water parameters, habitat features (sand, gravel, wood, rocks, plants, light, water flow) and other species if any. With shoaling species, it includes the need for numbers of them. These requirements are programmed into the genetic make-up of the species. And they do not change except by evolution over time, and longer time periods than a few years. This is what Dr. Loiselle is getting at in the citation.

Many of us have over the years got ourselves into difficulties with our fish. It happens, but we learn (the hard way, sadly). With all the destruction we are forcing on ecosystems, resulting in species extinction at the fastest rate ever, we have learned that we cannot change things to suit our thinking if it is denying an animal something it considers necessary for life.

I am all about any advice given. I am still very green at this and open to learn. I am into science by profession (engineering/hazmat) and I have been trying to learn/read/understand as much as I can about managing aquariums. I started out with the Mollies & Platies but I find the loaches and cories much more interesting and enjoy watching them. I have learned over time, the local store (who has been my main source of information/set up) are focused on money and just survival but not quality. My father in law used this same store 20+ years ago but mentioned recently they have changed since then.

What would you recommend as a substrate (specific type/brand etc) ? I was reading about doing a dirt substrate last night to mimic natural habitats and because I have a fondness for "bottom dwellers" along with the benefits for the plants to. I have noticed over the last few months, the cories and loaches will rest above the gravel BUT when they are feeding or swimming they invert themselves or will stop, dig, move on but you can clearly tell they avoid touching it while moving. They do sift through the gravel but it doesnt look natural.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

I'm not sure a fish can have emotions--not everyone agrees they can feel pain, much less emotions--

While I agree that whether or not fish feel pain is still debated, this article by The Smithsonian is a fascinating read, and described enough studies and experts that I could look into further, and convinced me that fish can feel pain. Sounds as though the scientific consensus has swung, with the majority now believing that the evidence supports the position that they do feel pain. Now emotions is another thing entirely...

It's Official: Fish Feel Pain

The verdict is in. But will our oceanic friends ever get the same legal protections as land animals?

www.smithsonianmag.com

This part in particular convinced me;
"At the anatomical level, fish have neurons known as nociceptors, which detect potential harm, such as high temperatures, intense pressure, and caustic chemicals. Fish produce the same opioids—the body’s innate painkillers—that mammals do. And their brain activity during injury is analogous to that in terrestrial vertebrates: sticking a pin into goldfish or rainbow trout, just behind their gills, stimulates nociceptors and a cascade of electrical activity that surges toward brain regions essential for conscious sensory perceptions (such as the cerebellum, tectum, and telencephalon), not just the hindbrain and brainstem, which are responsible for reflexes and impulses."

Apologies for going off topic, @IR_Crayoneater .But since you're in the scientific field too, thought you'd also appreciate it!

About the size clown loaches can reach when they're kept in excellent conditions, in the right group size, and with enough space to grow, I like to share this video. Something about truly seeing them when they're this big really brings it home in a way that reading the numbers just doesn't.

 

[Byron]

Good video on the clown loach. But...keep in mind that large as the fish in this video are, they are still not fully grown (going from the fellow's hand comparison) by which I mean, as large as they can get. This fish can reach 12 inches, and some have measured in at 16 inches (40 cm). I think I see five large loaches, and the group is also a critical issue--which of course means more tank space. I scanned the comments but couldn't see a reference to the tank size, but it looks like an 8-foot tank (2.4 meters) which is good for this species.

 

[Byron]

What would you recommend as a substrate (specific type/brand etc) ? I was reading about doing a dirt substrate last night to mimic natural habitats and because I have a fondness for "bottom dwellers" along with the benefits for the plants to. I have noticed over the last few months, the cories and loaches will rest above the gravel BUT when they are feeding or swimming they invert themselves or will stop, dig, move on but you can clearly tell they avoid touching it while moving. They do sift through the gravel but it doesnt look natural.

The "digging" into the substrate by cories especially restricts what one can have as a substrate. As I explained previously, this is a natural "xpectation" of the fish in this genus and they are not going to change their ways--if they should encounter harm doing this, they still do it because it is "in their genes" in a very real way.

Soil is not safe for substrate fish, and plants do not need it. A layer of soil capped by sand is not a good idea with substrate fish. Not only do the fish dig in it, and down into the soil--a cory can easily upend and a third or more of its length will be straight down in the substrate--but the natural water flow through the substrate will mix the materials. Inert river sand is the overall best substrate for all plants and fish.

Soil is actually not a "natural" substrate in most fish habitats, at least not aquarium fish species. The vast majority have river sand. Some, in Central America and the Indian subcontinent are larger-grain gravel. Many have an incredibly thick layer of mulm and dried leaves. I cannot recall ever seeing a soil substrate in SA, CA, SE Asia, or Africa. But they may exist. Even flooded forest is not strictly speaking soil, as the layer of organic matter like leaves is considerable.

You can buy river sand, or use quality play sand; not all "pl;ay sand" is the same. In NA, the best I have come across is Quikrete Play Sand, which you can get at Home Depot and Lowe's. There is a normal buff tone sand, and a dark grey; I have the latter and switched over about 9 years ago in all my tanks. Never use white, it is detrimental to most fish. Black is said by many to be the same, as fish like cories will darken considerably when maintained over black. I would go with a "natural" buff/grey sand. Lots of dried leaves can be added. And of course chunks of bogwood with or without river rock, depending upon the habitat you want to replicate. It is easy to use Flourish Tabs for larger rooted plants like swords. I had a tank with one of these plant substrates, Flourite actually, for two years before I tore it down and dumped the Flourite in the back corner of the garden. Waste of money. And it cold have destroyed my cories in that tank, if I had not been observant for the first few days after setting up the tank and removed the poor cories--missing barbels, one even had a third of its lower jaw sawn off. All recovered after being moved to a tank with play sand, and I still have them.

 

[IR_Crayoneater]

While I agree that whether or not fish feel pain is still debated, this article by The Smithsonian is a fascinating read, and described enough studies and experts that I could look into further, and convinced me that fish can feel pain. Sounds as though the scientific consensus has swung, with the majority now believing that the evidence supports the position that they do feel pain. Now emotions is another thing entirely...

It's Official: Fish Feel Pain

The verdict is in. But will our oceanic friends ever get the same legal protections as land animals?

www.smithsonianmag.com

This part in particular convinced me;
"At the anatomical level, fish have neurons known as nociceptors, which detect potential harm, such as high temperatures, intense pressure, and caustic chemicals. Fish produce the same opioids—the body’s innate painkillers—that mammals do. And their brain activity during injury is analogous to that in terrestrial vertebrates: sticking a pin into goldfish or rainbow trout, just behind their gills, stimulates nociceptors and a cascade of electrical activity that surges toward brain regions essential for conscious sensory perceptions (such as the cerebellum, tectum, and telencephalon), not just the hindbrain and brainstem, which are responsible for reflexes and impulses."

Apologies for going off topic, @IR_Crayoneater .But since you're in the scientific field too, thought you'd also appreciate it!

About the size clown loaches can reach when they're kept in excellent conditions, in the right group size, and with enough space to grow, I like to share this video. Something about truly seeing them when they're this big really brings it home in a way that reading the numbers just doesn't.

I actually read that same article before lol I read a few articles like this over the year and after talking to people at hatcheries. This is part of the reason I switch to using treble hooks while fishing instead of the "old school" single hooks, because they are less likely to swallow a treble. My wife still uses the singles and will occasionally have a fish swallow the whole thing and you can clearly tell its in pain, unfortunately sometimes I cannot get it out safely and will have to kill it.

I actually plan on making a custom tank in the future to keep larger species with. We have a local glass company that will actually make the glass for aquariums into specific shapes and sizes for you. We are looking to move in the next year so I am just waiting to see the space I have to "play with"....after my wife's permission of course lol.

 

[IR_Crayoneater]

The "digging" into the substrate by cories especially restricts what one can have as a substrate. As I explained previously, this is a natural "xpectation" of the fish in this genus and they are not going to change their ways--if they should encounter harm doing this, they still do it because it is "in their genes" in a very real way.

Soil is not safe for substrate fish, and plants do not need it. A layer of soil capped by sand is not a good idea with substrate fish. Not only do the fish dig in it, and down into the soil--a cory can easily upend and a third or more of its length will be straight down in the substrate--but the natural water flow through the substrate will mix the materials. Inert river sand is the overall best substrate for all plants and fish.

Soil is actually not a "natural" substrate in most fish habitats, at least not aquarium fish species. The vast majority have river sand. Some, in Central America and the Indian subcontinent are larger-grain gravel. Many have an incredibly thick layer of mulm and dried leaves. I cannot recall ever seeing a soil substrate in SA, CA, SE Asia, or Africa. But they may exist. Even flooded forest is not strictly speaking soil, as the layer of organic matter like leaves is considerable.

You can buy river sand, or use quality play sand; not all "pl;ay sand" is the same. In NA, the best I have come across is Quikrete Play Sand, which you can get at Home Depot and Lowe's. There is a normal buff tone sand, and a dark grey; I have the latter and switched over about 9 years ago in all my tanks. Never use white, it is detrimental to most fish. Black is said by many to be the same, as fish like cories will darken considerably when maintained over black. I would go with a "natural" buff/grey sand. Lots of dried leaves can be added. And of course chunks of bogwood with or without river rock, depending upon the habitat you want to replicate. It is easy to use Flourish Tabs for larger rooted plants like swords. I had a tank with one of these plant substrates, Flourite actually, for two years before I tore it down and dumped the Flourite in the back corner of the garden. Waste of money. And it cold have destroyed my cories in that tank, if I had not been observant for the first few days after setting up the tank and removed the poor cories--missing barbels, one even had a third of its lower jaw sawn off. All recovered after being moved to a tank with play sand, and I still have them.

The kind I was looking at last night were Flourite Black Sand (which is off the list now) and CaribSea SuperNaturals ( says its PH Neutral). What I have now isnt "rough" but it is large pieces and I have watched the cories push the pieces over to dig deeper. I probably check them more than any other fish in the tank from them doing this, just to make sure they are not wearing their barbels down or scratching themselves.

Would it be possible to leave 1-2" of my eco complete in the tank and then top it with 2" of sand ? or should I just go completely to one substrate ? I do plan on keep the driftwood in the tank (minus possible the spiderwood if I cannot get rid of the fungus. I wanted to add rocks but it seems most alter your water chemistry in some way and I do not want to be changing to many things at once, to reduce stress and catch any possible issues one at a time instead of all at once.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Good video on the clown loach. But...keep in mind that large as the fish in this video are, they are still not fully grown (going from the fellow's hand comparison) by which I mean, as large as they can get. This fish can reach 12 inches, and some have measured in at 16 inches (40 cm). I think I see five large loaches, and the group is also a critical issue--which of course means more tank space. I scanned the comments but couldn't see a reference to the tank size, but it looks like an 8-foot tank (2.4 meters) which is good for this species.

Yep! But even seeing these guys is pretty mind-blowing, and just shows they really don't belong in the average home aquarium!

He had a group of six of those "giant" clowns, and a bunch (I don't know how many) of smaller, medium sized ones in that tank, which is 800 gallons.

 

[Byron]

The kind I was looking at last night were Flourite Black Sand (which is off the list now) and CaribSea SuperNaturals ( says its PH Neutral). What I have now isnt "rough" but it is large pieces and I have watched the cories push the pieces over to dig deeper. I probably check them more than any other fish in the tank from them doing this, just to make sure they are not wearing their barbels down or scratching themselves.

Would it be possible to leave 1-2" of my eco complete in the tank and then top it with 2" of sand ? or should I just go completely to one substrate ? I do plan on keep the driftwood in the tank (minus possible the spiderwood if I cannot get rid of the fungus. I wanted to add rocks but it seems most alter your water chemistry in some way and I do not want to be changing to many things at once, to reduce stress and catch any possible issues one at a time instead of all at once.

As I mentioned previously, just to keep it in focus, the roughness of the substrate is one factor, but the bacterial issue is another. And then there is the need to filter feed for the cories.

Rocks like river rock is safe, it is granite. Calcareous rock like limestone, marble, and some others do dissolve calcium/magnesium and raise GH. I can get a pail of river rock of varying sizes (I pick it out) at a local landscape supply, and it is good aquascaping material. Along with bogwood of course.

I really would not keep the Eco-complete. To be honest, there is no evidence that this product, nor Seachem's similar Flourite, actually benefit plants. I had Flourite for two years, and changed to play sand, and the plants grew just the same. Given the risks to fish it is just not worth it. And too deep a substrate gets us into other issues, so you want inert sand at 2-3 inches overall depth when spread across the tank floor before acquascaping. My tanks have roughly 1.5 inches spread evenly, but smaller tanks have smaller plants with less need for deeper substrates. My 5-foot 115g that I had (pictured below) had 4 inches of play sand. The first photo was July 19, 2012, the second is the same tank two years later, May 27, 2014. My photography skills are not good, and with an inexpensive camera, but the plant growth is in my view good.

 

[IR_Crayoneater]

As I mentioned previously, just to keep it in focus, the roughness of the substrate is one factor, but the bacterial issue is another. And then there is the need to filter feed for the cories.

Rocks like river rock is safe, it is granite. Calcareous rock like limestone, marble, and some others do dissolve calcium/magnesium and raise GH. I can get a pail of river rock of varying sizes (I pick it out) at a local landscape supply, and it is good aquascaping material. Along with bogwood of course.

I really would not keep the Eco-complete. To be honest, there is no evidence that this product, nor Seachem's similar Flourite, actually benefit plants. I had Flourite for two years, and changed to play sand, and the plants grew just the same. Given the risks to fish it is just not worth it. And too deep a substrate gets us into other issues, so you want inert sand at 2-3 inches overall depth when spread across the tank floor before acquascaping. My tanks have roughly 1.5 inches spread evenly, but smaller tanks have smaller plants with less need for deeper substrates. My 5-foot 115g that I had (pictured below) had 4 inches of play sand. The first photo was July 19, 2012, the second is the same tank two years later, May 27, 2014. My photography skills are not good, and with an inexpensive camera, but the plant growth is in my view good.

I am roughly at about 3" of substrate now. I am going to try and get to lowes this weekend and check for the sand you mentioned (our lowes is kind of crappy) if they dont have it is that caribsea supernaturals a good alternative ? I have enough 5 gallon buckets (used only for the tank) and back up air stones that I can separate all the fish into different buckets while I swap out the substrate and place the plants and wood into a separate bucket. Any other recommendations when I do swap the substrate ? While everything is out any trade tricks to do to the plants about the algae besides reducing light time ?

That tank looks amazing, thats what I am trying to go for.