Bit Of A Newbie Question

[andyg81]

just been onto the shop. test kit is waiting for me to collect

would anyone recommend putting plants in now to help with the levels ??

i onyl had plastic plants in the little tank but want live ones in this one.

snake its, 3 foot wide, roughly 18 inch from back to front and about 2 foot high

 

[Prime Ordeal]

would anyone recommend putting plants in now to help with the levels ??

If you intend to do a fishless cycle don't add plants as it can mess with the readings you'll be taking (depending on how many you have) and can be confusing. In the small tank, however, plants would be great. And if you are going to put fish in the new tank while cycling it, then yes, plants are helpful.

 

[andyg81]

seriously getting confused with this fish keeping lol

ill get the hang of it but just annoyed with myself for getting in this mess in the first place. literally at 4pm sunday we had 11 fish in the small tank all looking ok, going well, by 5pm i was on ebay cause we had 26 fish !! and by 8pm we had a huge tank in the kitchen being cleaned, 11pm all filled up and turned on lol stressing me out !!

 

[snake007]

Discus need 4ft unfortunately mate.

 

[andyg81]

just a bit of an update got in last night with the water test (thank god I got it yesterday)

New big tank - Ammonia 0.5, nitrates 0 / 0.5
Old little tank - ammonia at least 7, nitrates, 1 ish

plus one dead neon tetra, made the decision to get the fish into the new tank - obviously also has its risks but it seemed the new tank was safer so in they went. Been told not to feed them for a couple of days while things settle.

Water in the big tank is clearing (slowly) with the help of some fluid safe medium, the temperature etc was all normal.

This morning water is clearer still, but not totally clear yet, we cant find one of the fish lol !! think the little thing has managed to get behind the filter box so if hes not swimming round tonight ill have to take the box off and have a look, then try and get the box set in a way that there are no gaps

 

[soybean]

You're in a fish-in cycle. If you seriously have a reading of 7 ammonia on one tank you need to change almost all of the water straight away. You should also be testing for nitrites, not just nitrates. Ammonia and nitrite are extremely toxic to fish and causes them damage that can affect them long term.

Because the filter isn't cycled, you need the remove the ammonia and nitrite yourself by huge daily water changes. Like, 90%. And you need to do this every time you find a reading of ammonia or nitrite in the tank, which means you need to be testing daily, or even every twelve hours, to monitor it. And from the looks of it, that applies to both tanks.

This is a huge undertaking and all the water changes get extremely tedious. Unfortunately this often leads to not doing them for some people, damaging the fish.

So it is possible to do a fish in cycle, it just requires lots of commitment on the part of you and your water bill.

The EASIER option is to rehome all your fish and start from scratch, adding ammonia yourself and testing daily to monitor your cycle. No need for the daily water changes and no fish to damage. Have you read the beginners section? Link in my sig.

Cycling can be daunting but if you search the forum for fishless cycling you'll find dozens of threads on it which should help.

So the choice is yours.

 

[andyg81]

sorry wasnt clear in what i wrote, the reading of 7 ammonia was in a small tank (we brought this 3 weeks ago and have now upgraded to a 200L tank a few days ago that was cycling without the fish in ready to transfer) but last night the reading on the old tank was so high - one dead fish also, we decided after speaking to the local fish shop to risk putting them in the new tank, albeit probably a couple of days too soon, so yes we are aware of having to do water changes etc etc. not feeding them for the next couple of days while the filter builds up etc etc

doing a 25% water change tonight after work and again tomorrow, obviously treating the new water and doing daily tests.

fingers crossed it works !

 

[soybean]

Mate with the greatest of respect, cos I know it's all new and muddling, I don't think you understand cycling. It can take WEEKS to cycle a filter, not a few days. It's the process of building up bacteria that convert ammonia into nitrite, then nitrite into nitrate, which you control with water changes. It is a biological process, not a settling in period. You don't cycle a tank, you mature a filter.

25% water changes just aren't going to cut it. Ammonia damages the gills in particular and weakens fish, even when you've got through the cycling fish can seem sickly and just die 'for no reason' - long term damage.

Your shop isn't going to tell you to buy ammonia and do a fishless cycle. It will sell you an inaccurate strip test kit probably, rather than a liquid kit. It'll probably tell you to run the tank for 3 days, maybe a week, and stock slowly, ie landing you right in the middle of a fish in cycle without going into the implications. Then when the fish die, people go to buy more. Maybe they'll even be convinced to buy a bottle of cycling product, which will do NOTHING, or maybe something that clears the water, or removes waste, or purifies it, etc etc. They are a business after all.

Whereas on here the vast majority of us have nothing to gain from giving you advice.

 

[andyg81]

i take your comments on board but ill just add, the shop ive been using has been fantastic from day one, lots of advice and yes he did say it would take weeks to get the filter cycled - we understand this. But we didnt have a choice but to put the fish into it last night, apart from doing a 75% change in the old tank which also had its risks due to being overstocked (our fault BIG mistake) I have had tropical tanks when i was younger still living at home and watched my parents do the water changes etc. the test kit is a strip kit yes I couldnt get a liquid one yesterday as all the shops were closed when i finished work, so its a case of make do till i can get one.

this is where i get confused, I am looking for advice, some places say daily 25% change, some say 50% some say more, i just dont know what / who to believe, I have no problem doing large water changes on a daily basis, I want this tank to be right so the fish are healthy and the tank looks good.

so any advice will be taken on board, infact ive printed every comment made so far to read again and again and I have a folder full of documentation to help me.

 

[soybean]

Daily water changes:

If you have an ammonia reading of 1.0, and change half the water, you will have a reading of 0.5, which is still too high.

If you only change 25% it will be even higher.

If you change at 80%-90%, you will still have trace levels of around 0.1-0.2 - more acceptable than 1.0, and about as close to 0 as you'll get without taking all the water out.

 

[andyg81]

is this the best test kit ?

http/www.ebay.co.uk/itm/API-FRESHWATER-FISH-AQUARIUM-MASTER-TEST-KIT-800-TESTS-/220811700239?pt=UK_Pet_Supplies_Fish&hash=item336967280f

 

[soybean]

The best affordable all rounder, yes. You'll be fine with that one.

 

[andyg81]

brought it ! so you think 80% change daily basis ? for how long do you think, just to give me an idea of how much declorinator etc im going to need

 

[soybean]

For as long as it takes for the tank to cycle, which you can't put a figure on. Potentially 6 weeks, though hopefully much sooner.

Daily testing will show your figures for ammonia and nitrite gradually start to rise and fall and then nitrate climb and remain steady. When you have daily readings for a week or so of 0 ammonia and nitrate and a reading of say 10-20 for nitrate (it varies depending on tap water etc) the tank is cycled.

Good luck, I know there's no way I could be bothered with doing wcs every day, far easier to pour some ammonia into a fishless tank and watch it do it itself!

 

[andyg81]

when ive got a few days worth of readings ill post them or PM you if thats ok for some advice ?

im in this for the long term not an overnight fill tank and hope for the best type thing so whatever i need to do will be done.