Bit Of A Newbie Question

[andyg81]

Hello all, new user, first post etc so forgive me if im not up with all the technical terms and ask some dumb questions in the coming days

ok so quick introduction to me and my fish tank problem, 4 weeks ago I brought a small 31 litre capacity tank, basically a starter tank with filter, pump heater etc etc, all went well fish doing great tank is perfect,

on sunday just gone I decided to get a bigger tank as we wanted more fish, so I now own a Juwel 200 litre capacity tank with a bluwave07 filter system, and an air pump brought this second hand so it needed a good old clean etc,

got the tank all set up, water treatment added and left it, got home from work Monday night and the temperature of the tank was 24.5 degrees, water a little cloudy but we had to add gravel / ornaments so we did this and left it alone again to settle / cycle. got home last night and the filter system / heater had fell off the back of the tank and were fully submerged, temperature was 32 degrees. re-connected everything in place and did approx 25% water change, re-treated water.
this morning the tank is very cloudy and still running at over 30 degrees, even though i turned down the heater.

any ideas ? also should I leave the seperate air pump running 24/7 or does the filter system do enough to move the water round ?

Ideally I need to get this tank sorted in the next few days as we have 26 fish in the smaller tank (BIG mistake on my part but I got a deal on 15 fish that I couldnt turn down) so these need moving to there new home ASAP

Current fish list

1 x siamese fighting fish
2 x neon tetra
2 x lemon tetra
2 x harlequin tetra
2 x cherry barb
2 x corydorus
5 x golden barb
5 x black widow tetra
5 x guppys

attached a picture prior to it going too cloudy

 

[andyg81]

picture attached

 

[BETTY BOO]

the cloudy water could be either 2 things.either a bacterial bloom which is fine or it could be dust and dirt from the gravel and plants/ornaments etc.it should clear so dont worry.can i ask how you are cycling your new tank??

 

[Prime Ordeal]

Unless the instruction manual says otherwise the filter/heater unit should always be fully submerged. You don't give a location, so is your house at a temperature of 30C? If not that then the heat regulator on the heater would seem to be broken , although it may be that the tank just needs a bit more time to cool down to the heater set-temperature. The heater in these filters is replaceable so you may have to get a new one.

An air pump isn't necessary at all as long as the filter outlet is able to disturb the water surface to oxygenate and induce flow around the tank. If you feel that this is insufficient or you just like the look of bubbles then you can still use the air pump. Be warned though that many fish don't like the bubbles and will hide away.

I don't envy your poor fish at the moment so I hope you can get this sorted out soon. With low numbers of barbs, a fighting fish and guppies you can expect some fin nipping and perhaps worse!

 

[andyg81]

to answer the first question about cycling the tank, i havent got the names of the treatments ive been using with me (at work currently) but all water was treated when it was put in following instructions

onto the second post
no instruction manual with the filter (second hand), if you look at the picture i added the "outlet" into the water on the filter is on the left hand side of it on the top of the "ribs" that go across it, this cant be above the water as this outlet is below the minimum warning line.

location is UK, house isnt that warm (we try to cut down on the heating bills lol)

with regards to the fin nipping comment - yep thats my worry to so I want to get them out of the small tank very quickly - it was a BIG mistake to buy the new fish but they were a job lot offer, 15 fish for £10 at my local aquatic centre.

im panicing a little over this tank with it being second hand and a hell of a lot bigger than my starter tank. I dont think we were ready to upgrade so quickly as we havent learnt a lot so far so its been a guessing game so far

 

[Prime Ordeal]

When you say you added water treatment I assume you mean a bacteria supplement of some kind (as well as dechlorinator). These bacteria 'instant starter' products can be hit and miss so don't assume that you're going to be able to just throw fish in there and that's that. You'll need to monitor toxin levels, i.e. ammonia, nitrite and to a lesser extent pH and nitrate. For this you need a test kit and the cheapest reasonable one is the API freshwater master test kit which you can get cheapest off eBay.

Then you have to be ready to make lots of water changes to keep these toxins under control, in particular nitrite and ammonia should be kept under 0.25ppm at all times. You'll be doing what's known as a fish-in cycle, i.e. establishing the necessary bacteria in the filter while having fish in the tank. If your bacteria supplement doesn't work then this can go on for a couple of months.

However, as you already have a mature filter in your other tank you can safely take perhaps a third of the media from that and put it in your new filter (and replace what you took with new media). This will help to cycle the new tank rapidly.

I would move all the barbs, tetras and the fighting fish to the new tank while you cycle it.

 

[andyg81]

it was called aqua safe I think and another filter safe medium. ill check when i get home. appreciate it needs monitoring etc, i have got a test kit waiting to be collected from my local aquatic shop when i finish work.

i cant take the filter media out the other tank - it will not fit in the new filter, i cant cut it to size because im selling my old tank to help cover the costs of this new one.

really dont want to put fish in the new tank yet, as im at work 10 hours a day and dont want to risk any problems when im not there and walking into a lot of dead fish. water has only been in the new tank since sunday night and had a 50% ish change last night while I was messing with the set up inside.

im waiting to hear from the aquatic shop as he may be able to "store" some of my fish for me so I can get the barbs etc out my little tank for the time being.

 

[littlenemo]

hey andy hello and welcome. prime really knows his stuff. he helpped me alot when i was cycleing my tank. with regards to the nutrifan cycle stuff i uased that to start and it was hit a miss reading for ammonia nitritres and natrate were always out. so i decided with the advice from these peeps on here to cycle with pure ammonia. took 6 weeks then added fish and its now all ok.

 

[andyg81]

appreciate all the advice people are giving, very much so i seem to be spending hours reading and reading about fish and tanks lol my little 31 litre was going really well and we were not going to upgrade for a good few months but jumped in with a 200 (well i think its a Juwel 190) but not sure with it being second hand.

once ive got the test kit ill know more about whats going on in the tank and be able to try to put it right.

just hope the water has settled a bit while im at work as that will make me feel better about the whole thing, and i hope the temperature drops to a safe level again.

with it being second hand obviously i dont know too much about the age of things but i know I only paid £120 for the whole lot, tank, filter, heater, ornaments pump loads of chemicals you name it.

if i have to drain it totally im going to put some undergravel filter plate type things in (sorry dont know the technical name but they are plastic with gaps in to allow the dirt to fall through) and then lay my airline cables under them as well as they were a nightmare to bury under the gravel.

think ill be on this forum a hell of a lot

 

[Prime Ordeal]

it was called aqua safe I think and another filter safe medium. ill check when i get home. appreciate it needs monitoring etc, i have got a test kit waiting to be collected from my local aquatic shop when i finish work.

i cant take the filter media out the other tank - it will not fit in the new filter, i cant cut it to size because im selling my old tank to help cover the costs of this new one.

really dont want to put fish in the new tank yet, as im at work 10 hours a day and dont want to risk any problems when im not there and walking into a lot of dead fish. water has only been in the new tank since sunday night and had a 50% ish change last night while I was messing with the set up inside.

im waiting to hear from the aquatic shop as he may be able to "store" some of my fish for me so I can get the barbs etc out my little tank for the time being.

Then your only realistic option is to return as many of the fish to the shop, as you said, and fishlessly cycle your new tank. Unless you can scrounge some mature media from the fish shop, or do you know someone else with a fish tank that you could get some media from?

 

[andyg81]

off to the fish shop afterwork, and the guy has been brilliant so far, so i may be able to steal some media from him if he cant store the fish.

ive basically told him ill order my next lot of fish from him anyway, looking at a couple of angel fish and some discus so looking at a decent amount of money so hopefully he will be able to help.

when you talk about cycling, what do you think is the best way to do it ? ive read so many different articles ive lost the plot with it

 

[littlenemo]

pure ammonia. kleen off. ebay

 

[andyg81]

might try some local shops for it rather than ebay want to try and get things moving quickly - obviously with my little overstocking issue

 

[littlenemo]

i ordered mine off ebay it came next day. lfs wont sell ammonia mate. http/stores.ebay.co.uk/Selections-Hardware-and-Model-Shop?_trksid=p4340.l2563

 

[snake007]

What are the dimensions of the tank?