Bio media debate/thoughts (Seachem Matrix vs. Eheim Substrat Pro or etc.)

[Helina]

So, I've been watching some GreenAqua shop/gallery youtube teaching tutorials and gotten recently even more ambitious about my aquarium setup: namely more seriously planning a canister filter for my 54 litre/12gallon tank. It's not oversized they say and that it makes the system more stable. Also the flow rate is adjustable in many canister filters. They use huge canisters for 50-60 litres and canisters also for nanos. That then led me to 'Pondguru' youtube reviews about Eheim 4+ and 5e which made much sense and I ended up considering getting an used Professionel 2 instead, which he mentioned being a better build.

Long story short, am debating now between Seachem Matrix and Eheim Substrat Pro for the canister filter bio-media which I need to get in near future because I only have a little of each. In past I've had Matrix in an internal filter but with the latest internal filter the Substrate pro was included. Both are doing their job as far as I've noticed. I found an article online according to which Matrix though has 10 times more surface area per litre than Substrate Pro, BUT only 4 times more such surface area, which is actually large enough to host nitrification bacteria growth and not just for chemical reactions. So the difference between them two isn't that huge after all.

My concern with this is though..... the HUGE particle sized of Matrix, with about 1/3rd or even half of the Matrix is huge boulders compared to Substrate Pro. I CAN'T HELP thinking that it's a waste of space! Despite the fact that per litre the surface area which IS available still exceeds the Substrate Pro. I considered the difference and might go with Matrix for it having 4x more surface nonetheless BUT... there's another big but which the huge boulders make: an UNEVEN FLOW through the bio media basket! Water always finds the way of least resistance and the Matrix boulders create bigger channels between them than the VERY UNIFORM holes of the Substrate Pro!In the bigger channels the water speeds up and pushes more of the water though that least resistance area making it harder for nitrification bacteria to treat the water properly. So, I'm thinking... and debating that would ths speedy water flow cancel out the 4 times better surface area differece?! I'm leaning towards thinking it would be perhaps still wiser to choose the slower more even flow material Substrate Pro, though it is 4 times less surface, but the contact with water in it is more uniform through the whole filter bio media section.

Any thoughts on this? Or other competitors?
The article is this one.

Cheers!

 

[Fishfunn]

For a 12-gallon tank, I would go for a HOB filter. Matrix is designed to house denitrification and aneorbic bacteria. The anerobic bacteria grow inside the Matrix boulders and are not limited by flow rate. Seachem makes de-nitrate, but that has a maximum flowrate of 50 gallons. Seachem Matrix doesn't have that flow rate restriction to remove nitrate.
Honestly, the best nitrate removers I found to be floating duckweed varieties. I have a 20-gallon tank with floating duckweed, and I get 0 ppm of nitrate consistently. The best bio-media I found to help with nitrate is the bio-home media.

 

[MaloK]

+1 for Bio-Home Ultimate.

 

[Helina]

Interesting. I hadn't considered denitrification before since I remembered from school that it produces back some quantities of nitrite and ammonium and greenhouse gas N2O. But of course in the aerobic surface layers ammonium and nitrite would be facing nitrification bacteria again and be reduced back to nitrate if those escape the incomplete denitrification process. Graph example Figure 1.

But yea, most of the end product is N2 which is the main content of the air we breath. So yea, I'm considering the denitrification process too now and therefore considering the Biohome Ultimate. I saw in once video of Pondguru where he broke one of the pieces to smaller ones. I guess that's what I would be doing to all of the media then, since I can't stand the big water escape routes between the media.

Thanks for the input to both of you!

EDIT: What are your experiences with Biohome Media, for exaple does it break down easily and make lots of dusty particles? I saw a note in one comparison article that it breaks down eventually.

 

[seangee]

We live in a capitalistic world and people want you to spend money on their products. In an aquarium the work is done by bacteria and these will colonise any available surface. The tank will only support the bacteria it needs to do the job - i.e. there is no benefit in more bacteria. I have 3 tanks ranging from 54 to 200l (previously 4) and have nothing but sponge in any of my filters. There is never detectable ammonia / ammonium or nitrite in any of these systems. Completing the cycle (getting rid of nitrate) is hard, expensive and requires a significant anaerobic surface area. I have never found a viable solution to this. And believe me I have tried as my tap water contains nitrate at 50ppm (I use RO because of this). If your source water is free of nitrate and you want to reduce the amount of nitrate built up use plants to do the heavy lifting. They will use the ammonia / ammonium directly and largely bypass the cycle. Your tank will then have even less bacteria (less food for them) but on the plus side if your (mechanical) filter fails your natural filter continues to function.

By all means spend the money if it makes you feel better. The fish won't care and your tanks won't be any healthier.

 

[Helina]

Yeah, thanks @seangee. I've been thinking about this also: whether I really need to increase what I already have, since it's been running already for 4 years and I have some of the fish (2 tetras) still living with the current stock which have been with me all this time (and lots of fish I've sold away and some have gone to the greener pastures). So yeah, you are right that there's only as much bacteria as there is food available for them, no matter how much "room" there is for them. Though they're increasing fast (with days/weeks) if conditions change (worsen as in more nitrate and poop). I've also heard that actually the substrate is one of the key elements to host beneficial bacteria. And no wonder since that's the first place where all the goo ends up in. Although filter is probably important in reducing the goo in the water column (mechanical filtration as well as biological).


I don't know. Another point is that plants need nitrate too, so it's not even good if it's at zero, so that's not my intention. Not sure if the Biohome Ultra would be then too efficient in removing nitrate? And therefore be a waste investment? Although... for being away from home extended periods and having a flake auto-feeder on (on the smallest setting as i have 54 litres/12 gallons), I think filtration can be the key in keeping the system stable in those cases. One benefit that I see in canister filter is that it increases the water volume of small aquariums per poop released, so it equals to the aquarium being less stocked and more capable of handling the amount of poop without the water parameters getting out of hand. But this same effect can of course be achieved with simply not overstocking a small aquarium!

Thanks for your input! So there's some pros and cons to this.
Also a related issue: I currently don't have any algae issue for example but my LED light has dimmed quite a bit and the aquarium looks actually brownish due to this. I'm not sure if increasing lighting might encourage algae with the routines and parameters I have so I don't dare to change out the dimmed light. And that's expensive too.

 

[seangee]

I mainly rely on the filters for the mechanical side - which is more important to me than to the fish. On my last 3 week holiday the canister filter in my big tank failed while away. Looking at the tank it failed very early in my holiday. Makes sense as I cleaned the filter and impeller just before I left. I never lost a single fish although it looked horrible, and ammonia / nitrite were zero. Nitrate was also very close to zero as that tank has a lot of plants It was the big tank in my signature pic, and did have a running air pump so the water was circulated.

LED lights don't last forever. If you look at it while on you will probably see that not all of the lights are on. This is usually not an issue as long as the color temp is right (and cleaning may help). Once the colour temp changes it can lead to algae problems. 2 of my tanks have cheap LED lights but I can control the time and output. Many of the inexpensive units have this feature built in, or you can buy an external controller for them.

FWIW aquatic plants don't need nitrate. To use nitrate they first have to convert it to ammonia so they will always use ammonia first if it is available. When I was using tap water I never managed to get nitrate levels to go down using plants alone (and I had a lot), at best it didn't go up.

 

[Magnum Man]

I pretty much have zero nitrates, growing aggressively growing terrestrial plants like Pothos vines out of my tanks… right now my main removers of broken down wastes are Pothos vines, and Peace lilies…

I use all hob filters now, ( Most are Tidal 75’s and Aquaclear 70’s ) most with 20 PPI foam, and ceramic donuts ( little tubes ), and all my tanks are heavily stocked… I find the hobs, house enough beneficial bacteria, and the plants finish up the process… I used to buy into the technology, but have gone to simplicity, and gotten much more stability…

 

[Helina]

Thanks for interesting replies @seangee & @Magnum Man.

BTW how about CO2? Is any of you injecting that with the systems you currently have? Would be interesting to know since that needs some efficient circulation as well, by either filter or else.

I'm asking because I'm considering that as well now, to get an used system with a bottle that's somewhat used already. I'm considering it, because some of the new small leaves of the Tiger Lotus are melting and heavily malformed - as if eaten from the edges especially. But I haven't seen any animals on the small leaves. Big ones are constantly grazed by (Macr)otocinclus. I googled and it might be due to not high enough CO2 concentration.

 

[Magnum Man]

I don’t use fertilizer l, and bought a big CO2 system, still in the box

 

[seangee]

I used to buy into the technology, but have gone to simplicity, and gotten much more stability…

+1 for the simple life (feel free to call it laziness ). No CO2, no high lighting and usually no ferts, and usually no cleaning. I'm still pretty good on weekly 50% water changes though . If plants like my tanks they can stay, if not I'll try something else.
I never kept up my journal but if you're interested https://www.fishforums.net/threads/a-tale-of-4-tanks.463021/

I haven't bought any plants in years - just thin them out and move them around when I get bored or it gets too overgrown.

 

[Helina]

Very interesting! I guess this is a hobby that can be made very technical and complicated and even obsess with measuring, or taken with some peace an low pace.

As a btw, I got one advice from some video, can't remember where, that when there's a problem in the aquarium and changes to the routine are made to always give it some time to see the effect, not rush to do a change after a change, but to have some patience.

About low maintenance routines, I'm not sure if I dare to admit it here, but once this year I didn't do a maintenance or water change for about 4-5 months. But I did monitor the water a little with a test stripe, that it was still ok. And I only had the 17 tetras back then, who didn't eat or poop much at all. I mean they ate very little flakes daily but seemed active and healthy. Still, I'm really shocked that nothing died during the maintenance break!
The issue though was that the tank didn't look that good anymore, since the windows were covered with brown algae and detritus. I must admit I love to manage my tank now and hassle everything with it and around it and dive deeper into the hobby and research stuff and do changes to it. And I must admit I love it so much more after I properly cleaned the tank after the maintenance break. I really enjoy it now even though at first it had only Amazon sword, Cryptocoryne and 2 Marimo moss balls left in the tank with some stony features

A cleaned tank looked enjoyable and peaceful still, though a bit minimalistic.

I almost can't stand this old pic now, but it was one stage and my tank had finally recovered from a brush beard infestation after having no ferts and lighting only 5h a day for about a year! I can't describe how happy and excited it made me so I got back into putting some effort in it. But so, yea, I understand low maintenance intervalls not being the end of the tank necessarily. Though it depends on so many features.

This thread has a bit escaped the topic now, but I still welcome to hear more about the substrate and maintenance choices, opinions and experiences.

 

[MaloK]

I was like you guys before I put my head a little more seriously into having solid denitrification.

Before then I was using only sponges and it could take many months before some sort of denitrification took place.

In my last setup I decided that even if I'm not a big fan of ceramic and sintered glass, I would force myself having my filter configured in a more classic way, with a Pre-filter, a Coarse sponge, Bio-Home and a lot finer Mechanical stage.

I seeded the tank and media with NitrateMinus And It took only a couple weeks before denitrification started rolling.

Today the tank is running low nitrate all the time. The plants + Bacteria in the substrate + Those in the bio-home all together are just enough to prevent it from rising.

Another side effect is that mulm buildup is a lot slower. Also the water seem to be holding less nutrients and it's been pretty good at keeping algae at bay. And since I use a fine mechanical stage, the crazy multiplication of seed shrimps also relaxed.

While I still don't want to admit it completely, but... Deluxe Product = Deluxe Results.

 

[Helina]

While I still don't want to admit it completely, but... Deluxe Product = Deluxe Results.

I must admit I love the technical stuff though, but it's good to know that we can manage also without.
I actually am gazing on an used EHEIM Professionel 4e+ 350, electronically controlled canister filter for my 12 gallon/54 litre tank and am super super excited about getting to tinker the flow rates with it. I hope I get it. I know it's not a must, but I'm still leaning to believe like you that it may be an upgrade still and for the benefit after all. Thanks for your comment

 

[MaloK]

The worst thing that could happen to me is to be able to remotely monitor anything...

I don't want to know if temperature fluctuates or anything else, I'm too much of a geek for that kinda stuff.
I would lose too much time on it

But, returning to your setup, For a 12 gallons tank, you have a panoply of nice HOB's that would be more than sufficient. I'm a sellout on Aquaclear (free ad follows)... Because of their simplicity (Only 10 parts, that are nearly interchangeable with all the range of models) The facility they can be modified to suit your needs. The easy maintenance, compared to any canister. Maintenance can be done between two sips of coffee on a Saturday morning. Once you know how to set them up, they never overflow nor unprime, it's magic.

A full maintenance with impeller cleanup takes 10 minutes and a gallon of water. No spill, No frill. I that !