Bio Balls Cause High Nitrates Fact Or Fiction ?
- Thread starter winngames
- Start date
Betta5
Fish Herder
Do you have any live rock in the tank? I have used bio balls and along with W/C my levels stay fine,
If your cycling tho (nitrite reading) there will be nitrate kicking about anyway..
but it is quite possible, alot of people don't like using bioballs as it seems to produce excess nitrate.., but then if there is nitrate in the water surely the LR should be able to remove it??..
well the following is my theory..
The nitrogen cycle has a local dependancy on happening near and in the LR, I hadn't heard of this local dependancy on the whole cycle in the rock so I did a little research, and according to the source I found, it appears that the efficient exchange of water in the rock is down to animals within the rock, not a slow diffusing of water thru it. So I'm thinking that the nitrate is produced by the oxygen loving bacteria near the surface, lets say the first 1/2 inch into the rock, this produces a 'que' of water going into and out of the rock, so the nitrate just produced is then the first nitrate heavy water to get de-nitrated by the inner core of the rock with the anerobic bacteria. So any nitrate that is produced outside of the rock is in effect surplus and takes longer to work it's way into the que for de-nitrating. This also could qualify why it's important to have a minimum amount of LR so excess nitrate has a chance to be de-nitrated.
Interesting link here, it's assumption three that goes into detail about the flow of water thru LR.
bioballs and external filters do not cause nitrates as such. It is caused by the filtration cycle whereby fish food and waste break down releasing ammonia which is consumed by aerobic bacteria and converted into nitrite and then nitrate.
Nitrate test kits will read nitrite as well, thus making your nitrate reading incorrect.
A sudden spike of ammonia or nitrite is usually caused by an imbalance in the filtration cycle. A power failure or cleaning the filter media under tap water are common causes. A sudden increase in fish populations or more food will also cause it. It should settle down within a few days.
Nitrate test kits will read nitrite as well, thus making your nitrate reading incorrect.
A sudden spike of ammonia or nitrite is usually caused by an imbalance in the filtration cycle. A power failure or cleaning the filter media under tap water are common causes. A sudden increase in fish populations or more food will also cause it. It should settle down within a few days.
ive got 12kg of live rock in the tank, i have recently replaced all the filter media within the last month including the bio balls 
take it that’s the problem, should i take out some of the bioballs in the filter and replace it with live rock these no light in the filter but theres enough room
thanks for all the help
take it that’s the problem, should i take out some of the bioballs in the filter and replace it with live rock these no light in the filter but theres enough room thanks for all the help
yep changing the filter media probably wiped out the filter and your tank cycled again giving you the nitrite reading.
I would probably just leave it and the cycling process should be finished in a few days to a week (depending on how far through the cycle it is). It's over half way tho because there is nitrite being produced. That means the first lot of good bacteria are there and converting the ammonia into nitrite.
Just keep the feeding down to a bare minimum (once or twice a week) and let things run. If the ammonia or nitrite levels get excessively high then do a water change, but otherwise leave it be.
I would probably just leave it and the cycling process should be finished in a few days to a week (depending on how far through the cycle it is). It's over half way tho because there is nitrite being produced. That means the first lot of good bacteria are there and converting the ammonia into nitrite.
Just keep the feeding down to a bare minimum (once or twice a week) and let things run. If the ammonia or nitrite levels get excessively high then do a water change, but otherwise leave it be.
I think that colin's posts are dead on. There is a lot of, well. controversy about keeping bioballs, ceramics, sponges, etc in marine tanks, particularly in nano systems. These additions are placed to add increased surface area for bacteria to grow on and in, thus increasing the surface area for the biological filter. The argument comes in that the ceramics and bioballs ALSO then trap filtered particulate material, thus increasing the surface area for mechanical filtration. So..in theory, some material gets trapped there that, may, have been removed with a water change or vacuuming, etc.
Is it true? I'll leave the reading to you. I've found comments going both ways. I've read articles that nixed them...and others that say, 'sure, keep them but just clean them as much as possible." Is there a scientific study on it? Not that I could find. In GENERAL, many people DO NOT recommend using extra filtration like ceramics and bioballs in marine tanks. PERSONALLY, my nano tank has NONE..no ceramics, no bioballs, no sponges. I run zero nitrates BUT....I do have a refugium.
So...bottomline
Marine keeping is an art. If one thing doesn't work, try something else. Stay with what works for you.
SH
Is it true? I'll leave the reading to you. I've found comments going both ways. I've read articles that nixed them...and others that say, 'sure, keep them but just clean them as much as possible." Is there a scientific study on it? Not that I could find. In GENERAL, many people DO NOT recommend using extra filtration like ceramics and bioballs in marine tanks. PERSONALLY, my nano tank has NONE..no ceramics, no bioballs, no sponges. I run zero nitrates BUT....I do have a refugium.
So...bottomline
Marine keeping is an art. If one thing doesn't work, try something else. Stay with what works for you.SH
Bioballs cannot create nitrates as they are inert. They are no more able to create nitrates then the acrylic or glass your tank is made out of. It is impossible.
The problems people have with bioballs and the reasoning behind them causing nitrates is the bioballs are not properly cleaned and accumulate detritus. Many of the trickle filters are so good at breaking up the flow there is not enough to keep the detritus from building up in the balls.
It is very common for people to suggest replacing bioballs with liverock. Liverock kept under low flow the same way most bioball compartments are designed wil also accumulate detritus and cause nitrates. It is common for people to believe that liverock is a more complete means of filtration since it has the ability to grow anaerobic bacteria that converts nitrates into gas and expells it from your system. Anaerobic bacteria are oxygen haters so they do not colonize on bioballs. Bioballs are very good at growing aerobic bacteria to convert ammonia and nitrite.
While it is very common for hobbyists to complain about bioballs, many of the aquaculture facilities still use and love them. They are much easier to clean and rid harmful organisms then LR.
Just the same as cannister filters, bioballs can be very beneficial to a system if cleaned properly. They will do the most good if they are cleaned with salt water sot he aeobic bacteria can survive.
HTH
The problems people have with bioballs and the reasoning behind them causing nitrates is the bioballs are not properly cleaned and accumulate detritus. Many of the trickle filters are so good at breaking up the flow there is not enough to keep the detritus from building up in the balls.
It is very common for people to suggest replacing bioballs with liverock. Liverock kept under low flow the same way most bioball compartments are designed wil also accumulate detritus and cause nitrates. It is common for people to believe that liverock is a more complete means of filtration since it has the ability to grow anaerobic bacteria that converts nitrates into gas and expells it from your system. Anaerobic bacteria are oxygen haters so they do not colonize on bioballs. Bioballs are very good at growing aerobic bacteria to convert ammonia and nitrite.
While it is very common for hobbyists to complain about bioballs, many of the aquaculture facilities still use and love them. They are much easier to clean and rid harmful organisms then LR.
Just the same as cannister filters, bioballs can be very beneficial to a system if cleaned properly. They will do the most good if they are cleaned with salt water sot he aeobic bacteria can survive.
HTH
I don't think anyone was suggesting inert objects can create anything, we all assume it is the bacteria that produces the nitrate thru interaction with the water column. So when people say Bio balls create nitrate, the assumption is the bacteria colonised on the bio balls produces the nitrate, just like a sponge canister filter 'produces nitrate'.
Just felt I had to spell that out
There's one othe important part of the argument in the bioballs creating nitrate (or other mechanical filtration for that matter). The theory goes that not only do the bioballs house bacteria (which they're designed to do), but that they also accumulate detritus, uneaten food, dying algaes, and other organic matter and hold them there. These organic matter then break down solely through the nitrogen cycle and are not recycled by any members of cleanup crew, microinvertebrates, scavengers, etc. So instead of the nitrogenous waste going towards the growth of one of these organisms, it is instead all broken down in the water column to nitrate.
Ultimately LR is the product of millions of years of evolution of an ecosystem/biotope to become the ocean's filtration... Somethin tells me the plastic things we've concoted on a whim are not quite as effective and maybe even have flaws
Ultimately LR is the product of millions of years of evolution of an ecosystem/biotope to become the ocean's filtration... Somethin tells me the plastic things we've concoted on a whim are not quite as effective and maybe even have flaws
Adrinal
4k gallons and growing!
the aerobic bacteria on the outside of live rock directly feeds the anaerobic bacteria on the inside of live rock.
What does the aerobic bacteria on the outside of Bioballs feed?.... right, nothing... boom N-Factory!
What does the aerobic bacteria on the outside of Bioballs feed?.... right, nothing... boom N-Factory!
andywg
Bored into leaving
Directly feeds? You mean it passes it into the rock rather than just releasing it through its cell walls into the water? I am surprised at that. Do the bacteria create little paths through the rock along which nitrates can pass so that the 10-40+x turnover does not just force the nitrates into the water general column?
Do you have any science to back up this statement?
But water is still flowing through your tank. If you have live rock (or any other nitrate export facility) and bioballs then the nitrate from the bioballs will get pushed around in the water and dealt with by whatever you use.
The nitrate factory story is just a myth. People noticed higher nitrates when they either:
1) Used only bioballs and did not perfrom regular water changes
2) Used bioballs with live rock and didn't take any care to ensure the bioballs were maintained properly
How many people successfully have zero nitrates when just using live rock on a normally stocked tank? Very few, that is why we have DSB and 'fuges. Bioballs will create nitrates at exactly the same rate as live rock. It is just that if you don't have a nitrate export system they will continue building (or if you let them get bunged up with gunk then more waste is breaking down).
I personally can't see any reasons for a nitrate factory if you design your bioball filtration well (such as a trickle tower which falls into a macroalgae sump).
At the end of the day it is horses for courses. If you want a lightly stocked reef tank where the filtration needs little maintenance then LR is great, but if you want a heavy stocked tank with messy predators then bioballs in a trickle tower will destroy live rock and leave loads more space in the tank for the fish to swim.
Adrinal
4k gallons and growing!
Just like you, I personally cant see... ect. Some one is living up to their self assesment "bully"
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