Betta tanks...

[Tokis-Phoenix]

This is just somthing i have been wondering about for a while now and i would like to hear your opinions on the subject and it starts like this;
I often hear storys of people who have mistreated their fish by putting them in tanks far too small for them, say like a 8inch goldfish in a 10gal tank, that their fish are perfectly "happy" in them. This also goes for practically every other case of fish mistreatment and you always hear from the owner that their fish are happy or that they don't mind their conditions etc.
I have come to the conclusion from all this that it is almost imposible to tell wether a fish is happy or not as some of these people actually appear to believe their fish are happy, and that you have to give conditions known to be good for the fish instead of sumerize wether your fish is happy or not from your conclusion on its feelings. This is only the safest surefire way of knowing wether what you are doing for the fish is good.
My questions starts here; i see many people on this section of the forum happily recommending 1, 2 and 3gal tanks for a single betta each to be put in but i have always wondered wether this is actually good for the fish and makes them happy, and not just taking into account how much space you have yourself for tanks and money and time to take care of them.
How can a betta be "happy" in a tank so small when in the wild they live in rice paddy sprawling for acres with hundreds of gallons of water? Is putting them in such a small tank realy making them happy? how can you actually tell if they are happy...?

Im not having a go at anyone here at all, but i just want to hear your opinions and justifications on 1, 2 and 3gal tanks thats all as i am very curious on the subjecy
Thanks for your time

 

[Welsh_Woman]

Well I always guessed if your fish was happy or sad you would see a change in its behavier, I think its inhumane to put a betta in anything less than 1 gallon, in my opinion I think they would be happy in a one gallon tank. I dunno really, why did i answer this first? lol

 

[bkk_group]

I think its inhumane to put a betta in anything less than 1 gallon

come on, there is nothing "inhumane" about it as long as you do the water changes and general cleaning required. i have many bettas that are perfectly happy in even 1/2 gallon jars, it's all about how well you take care of them.

 

[abstract]

SOME bettas come from rice paddies that spread for acres...some are from drier regions where the patties may be much smaller....some even live in patties where they dry up and die during the drier times....

whether these fish are "happy" or not in their territory is trivial....

some humans are happy in crowded cities, some are happy alone in the middle of nowhere....

i know you can't relate human emotion to that of a fish, but i think the fish being "happy" is impossible to tell....

the recommendations of size of the tank really stem from personal beliefs and other factors really.....

i'm sure you will never find a betta in the wild that lives in exactly 2 gallons of water every day....however, if they did - they would be able to live there and prosper IMO

i'm sure i didn't really get anywhere with my post but i'm kind of just typing as i think...interesting topic though

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

There's a big difference though between just staying alive and being happy with it though...

 

[abstract]

prospering is a quality of life....those that "prosper" live "happily" in other words.....

i used the word prosper because it is literally IMPOSSIBLE to pin an emotion such as "happy," "sad," "depressed," etc on to an animal - these are man made words describing human emotions

i simply do not believe in using human emotions to describe the behavior of animals...

maybe you think a dog is happy when its wagging its tail or a cat is happy when it is purring, but i beg to differ....

in a lot of my arguments i use animal instinct (action/reaction) in relation to human emotion (action/reaction)....dogs wag their tails for underlying instinct, and usually as a reaction to some event - not raw emotion....bettas blow bubblenests due to underlying instinct and in reaction to something (water params, other bettas, human attention) - not happiness....

so in short (lol, sorry for my digression), if a betta is prospering they will (in your terms) be happy....if they are not prospering in their environment, there is no possiblity for happiness, as we know it

 

[eudielynn]

I have bettas in 1 gal, 2 1/2 gal and 20 gal tanks. I think they are all happy. Hunter (1 gal) does his little fishy dance every morning when I come into work. He eats well, blows bubblenests, checks out his snail and just gives the overall impression that he is happy and healthy. Batista in the 2 1/2 gal hates current and will stay in the bottom of his tank and sulk if the current is too strong. I turn it down and he also does the snakey dance, bubblenests and is a pig about food all the time. I can tell he is far happier then. My baby, Booker is in the 20 gal, and he is still adjusting since he has just been in there about 5 days now, but he doesn't hesitate to get right into the middle of his tankmates and checks things out. He eats well, and shows no signs of stress.

These are not wild born bettas. They are domesticated, they have never lived in rice paddies and the 1/2/3 gal tanks are much better than what they are used to in the LFS or local chain store.

All animals were originally wild and have been domesticated over time, I have a cat that hates the outdoors and I can leave the front door wide open and she would never go out. She doesn't feel caged in, she feels safe. I think if you make the bettas home the best you possibly can they will be happy.

A great dane can live in a one bedroom apartment if all other needs are met. (Not that I would want to do that). I don't think a betta would be any different.

JMHO

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

I have bettas in 1 gal, 2 1/2 gal and 20 gal tanks. I think they are all happy. Hunter (1 gal) does his little fishy dance every morning when I come into work. He eats well, blows bubblenests, checks out his snail and just gives the overall impression that he is happy and healthy. Batista in the 2 1/2 gal hates current and will stay in the bottom of his tank and sulk if the current is too strong. I turn it down and he also does the snakey dance, bubblenests and is a pig about food all the time. I can tell he is far happier then. My baby, Booker is in the 20 gal, and he is still adjusting since he has just been in there about 5 days now, but he doesn't hesitate to get right into the middle of his tankmates and checks things out. He eats well, and shows no signs of stress.

These are not wild born bettas. They are domesticated, they have never lived in rice paddies and the 1/2/3 gal tanks are much better than what they are used to in the LFS or local chain store.

On the other hand though im sure if i put 4guppys in a 3gal, despite the tank being far too small for them, they'd still most likely mate, breed and chase each other around as normal because its instinct. I don't think these factors are signs of happyness(if fish can portray such a thing to us at all), but just instincts.
If i was kept in a small room my entire life, fed and exercised suficiently, i'd probably still be alive 40yrs on but my activity would not be sign i was happy in those conditions, just that i wasn't sick and i was alive. I'd be bored out of my brains and probably feeling very suicidal and wrong in the head.
Any tank bigger than those betta cups you often see in bad lfs's are probably an improvement for the betta, but that doesn't make them adequete.
Many people say bettas are intelligent, but how can a 2gal tank posibly keep their minds happy?
Im not accusing anyone here of been bad but im just using these things as examples of what im getting at and want to discuss.

 

[WILDER]

I'm not having ago either as I have never kept them, but it has crossed my mind from time to time, if they are happy in such a small confined area.

 

[abstract]

i would've expected more people to respond by now.... /me thinks some are worried about getting into an ethical debate

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

i would've expected more people to respond by now.... /me thinks some are worried about getting into an ethical debate

Yeah i was worried about that too cos so many people here have 3gal and smaller better tanks and the feeling around the forum for many years has been they are fine, but i thought it was an important issue to raise none the less even if a little controversal.

 

[Tokis-Phoenix]

Shall we make a list of symtoms/behavioral signs that are associated with betta happyness? i think it would make the situation easier to look at. Anyone?

 

[WILDER]

This is an intersting article.
http/www.mushi.petfish.net/bettahouse.html

 

[eudielynn]

Sorry to disagree, but I am sure my bettas are happy. I take a lot of time with them and I am very much aware of their moods, what is best for them and what makes them thrive. I never said that they were alone in their tanks, they all have snails, some have other fish, I also change their tanks regularly so even if it is the same cave or plant, they are in different locations or positions and it keeps the bettas alert and active checking out the changes. I also feed them a variety of foods so that they don't get bored with their diets. I wouldn't keep them in anything less than 1 gal because I want them to be able to stretch out their fins and swim around a little, but the ones that have been in the bigger tank don't utilize the additional room. Booker has his corner he likes, when Jericho was in there he had his cave.

And I don't use the tank to keep their minds active. I interact with my fish just like I do my cats and dog. If I want them to be happy, it's my job as a responsible pet owner to keep them that way.

 

[abstract]

not to start an argument or anything....just trying to raise a point....i feel that i, too, know the "mood" of my pets at times ....however, who is to say that each individual doesn't have their own concepts of particular moods - and who is to say that we are not merely making up these "moods" in our minds to try to bring these animals closer to human standards?

i know this is an extremly subjective and touchy subject, and i am not trying to say that your bettas may be unhappy at all...just that this subjectivity and individuality is there for one reason - we WANT our pets to display emotions just as we do... just my 2 cents