Betta killed cardinal

I won't guess as to the issue with the Betta, but for the future, remember as others have noted that male Bettas are not community fish and should always be solitary. And while some will say they have had luck with a male Betta in with other fish, this is contrary to the normal behaviour for the Betta and may not last. More than one member here has reported all being well for weeks if not months, then overnight the Betta lashes out and dead fish result. Or it can work in reverse. I explained in considerable detail in another thread last week why this is fact; here is the text.

Betta splendens seems to live solitary in its natural habitat which is still and sluggish waters, including rice paddies, swamps, roadside ditches, streams and ponds. Such an environment is not conducive to fish that require oxygenated waters so one can expect few if any non-anabantid species to live in such habitats. During the dry season, most Bettas are able to bury themselves in the bottom of their dried up habitat. There, they can live in moist cavities until water once again fills the depression during a rainy period. The fish can survive even if thick, clay mud is all that is left of the water. They do not survive total drying out of the bottom. (Vierke 1988) There are very few fish species, and none that are found in the same habitats, that can manage life in such conditions, which is further evidence that the B. splendens is most likely a solitary species.

All anabantids are territorial; male bettas instinctively fight each other in defending their territory. Selective breeding over many years has produced fish with a heightened sense of territory defense, which explains the common name of Siamese Fighting Fish. Fish fights for money is a "sport," if you want to use the term for such animal cruelty. This means the Bettas we see in stores have an even greater propensity to literally kill each other given the chance. For a fish that instinctively lives alone, and believes it must defend its territory to survive--both traits that are programmed into the species' DNA--this aggressiveness is likely to extend to any fish that dares enter the Betta's territory, which in most cases will be the tank space. And forcing the fish to "live" under such conditions is frankly cruel and inhumane.

Individual fish within a species do not always adhere to the "norm" for the species; this is true of all animals, including humans. But with fish, responsible aquarists should research the fish's behaviours, traits, and requirements, and then aim to provide accordingly. "Expectations" are as I said above programmed into the DNA, and we are not going to change them just because we may want to have a Betta in the tank with "x" fish species. Sometimes the Betta seems to co-operate with our experiment, but in the majority of cases it will not, eventually if not immediately. Fish that do succumb are likely being severely stressed, unseen to the aquarist until it is too late.

If the Betta does not first attack the intruders, the intruders may go after the Betta. It is a two-way street, and in either situation it is the Betta that loses in the end. Severe stress causing increased aggression, or conversely severe withdrawal from being targeted by the other fish. And physical aggression is not the only concern; fish release pheromones and allomones, chemical communication signals that other fish read, and these can promote aggression that will in time weaken the fish to the point of death.
 
@Byron I have been so curious about how Bettas really live in the wild, having seen raging debates between people arguing that Bettas should always be solitary, and others arguing they've kept theirs in community tanks for years without issue, and that they're fine with other species, etc. I tried to find out more about their natural habitat and whether other fish live there, and it was frustratingly difficult to find real info that wasn't someones biased and anecdotal personal experiences.

Your information was incredibly helpful and illuminating, the allomones and pheromones being crucial I think, and based in science, not what people would prefer. Thank you for how dedicated you are to sharing real research.
 
Thank you everyone for the responses, I have been feeding my betta micro pellets, shelled and cut up peas but will definitely stop with the bloodworms if that also has a risk of carrying disease. If brine shrimp newly hatched at home work then I might try that. As for females being aggressive to other fish, I knew they could sometimes be a little aggressive but I guess I didn’t know how much they could be. I know someone said earlier they had more success with their Bettas when they were young, I was just wondering where you got them as I never know how old my betta is when I get them.
Thank you again for all the help
You can get "baby boy" and "baby girl" betta from chain pet stores. I requested a young female from my LFS and they special ordered a couple for me. There may be members of a local fish club you can get into contact with.
 
You can get "baby boy" and "baby girl" betta from chain pet stores. I requested a young female from my LFS and they special ordered a couple for me. There may be members of a local fish club you can get into contact with.
Thank you so much, will definitely try this in the future
 
@Byron I have been so curious about how Bettas really live in the wild, having seen raging debates between people arguing that Bettas should always be solitary, and others arguing they've kept theirs in community tanks for years without issue, and that they're fine with other species, etc. I tried to find out more about their natural habitat and whether other fish live there, and it was frustratingly difficult to find real info that wasn't someones biased and anecdotal personal experiences.

Your information was incredibly helpful and illuminating, the allomones and pheromones being crucial I think, and based in science, not what people would prefer. Thank you for how dedicated you are to sharing real research.

Thank you. One comment about these individuals who say "they've kept theirs in community tanks for years without issue, and that they're fine with other species, etc." No aquarist can make such ridiculous statements concerning how fish are managing with what we force on them. I laugh every time I see "my fish have been this or that and are happy." I guess their fish can talk to them, because that is the only way to know this. If we research what fish "x" requires, how it lives, etc, and then provide a reasonable replica of that environment, then and only then can we assume the fish will likely be healthy and thus "happy," but it is an assumption. But it is grounded in scientific evidence so the assumption is as close to fact as one can get.
 
Does that mean you're still going to keep putting other fish in with bettas? After seeing the information that Byron just left?
I always have a back up plan for if my fish get aggressive. It always depends upon the fish. You can get two fish from the same brood and end up with a laid back little guy or one that needs a 10 gallon all to himself. As far as the community tanks I already have set up, I won't be shuffling them around. Finnegan is fine where he is and my little red only flares at me and leaves the other fish alone.
 
Thank you for everyone that has been helping and sharing information. Just to clarify, I’m not trying to argue that Bettas are community fish and I won’t be putting more fish with Bettas. I received misinformation from my LFS and didn’t do as much research as I should’ve. I have returned my cardinals. It was an unfortunate incident that happened with my female betta and I completely get that it is my fault. I would never try to hurt any of my fish.
 
Thank you for everyone that has been helping and sharing information. Just to clarify, I’m not trying to argue that Bettas are community fish and I won’t be putting more fish with Bettas. I received misinformation from my LFS and didn’t do as much research as I should’ve. I have returned my cardinals. It was an unfortunate incident that happened with my female betta and I completely get that it is my fault. I would never try to hurt any of my fish.
We all have made our share of mistake with our fish, do not beat up on yourself to much. You have your heart in the right place and care about your fish. That is what is important. Hang in there.
 
Thank you for everyone that has been helping and sharing information. Just to clarify, I’m not trying to argue that Bettas are community fish and I won’t be putting more fish with Bettas. I received misinformation from my LFS and didn’t do as much research as I should’ve. I have returned my cardinals. It was an unfortunate incident that happened with my female betta and I completely get that it is my fault. I would never try to hurt any of my fish.
That's really good to hear. Don't beat yourself up too badly, there is so much misinformation out there, more and more scientific research, and I've seen well respected hobbyists and professionals recommend bettas with tetra or other small, peaceable fish. Even the most knowledgeable and well-meaning person is going to have gaps in their knowledge, or not be up to date with the latest scientific research. You followed advice that it made sense to trust; it happens all the time, even when you have done a lot of research.

I followed bad advice too, recently. Have been keeping otocinclus with guppies in a hard water area, not knowing that the otos need softer water, and will sustain damage to their internal organs from the mineral build up. I'm setting up another tank with softer water for them, because despite doing so much research and watching youtube videos from respected professionals in the hobby, I didn't know or understand enough about water hardness and its importance. Try googling "what fish to keep with otocinclus" and you'll see guppies recommended everywhere. But guppies need hard water, the two species need different water parameters. I also didn't know that information about why bettas need to be solitary, so your experience has taught others who come and read this thread something too.

I think most everyone who has kept fish tanks has made an error that has killed a fish, even with the best will in the world. When we know better, we do better. :) You were quick to spot the problem and return the other tetra, and seek help for your betta, so you clearly care a lot, and took advice on board for the future. No one could ask more of you than that.
 
Thank you. One comment about these individuals who say "they've kept theirs in community tanks for years without issue, and that they're fine with other species, etc." No aquarist can make such ridiculous statements concerning how fish are managing with what we force on them. I laugh every time I see "my fish have been this or that and are happy." I guess their fish can talk to them, because that is the only way to know this. If we research what fish "x" requires, how it lives, etc, and then provide a reasonable replica of that environment, then and only then can we assume the fish will likely be healthy and thus "happy," but it is an assumption. But it is grounded in scientific evidence so the assumption is as close to fact as one can get.
Too many people cannot even tell whether their dog is genuinely happy - a species basically designed to interact with us in an expressive way, and read our body language, cues and emotions. That desperately wants to please us.
Watch any youtube compilation of "funny" dog videos, and see how many people think it's hilarious when their dog is stressed, anxious, fearful, ill, aggressive or snarling. But they'll still claim that they're great dog owners and that their dog is fine.

When so many of the general population have trouble telling when a dog is actually happy, I don't trust them to know with fish. And as you say, we have no way of telling what "happy" would mean to a fish either. Living in the most natural conditions we can provide and appearing healthy is the best we can aim for.
 
Just to add something...
Fish are animals and all animals will follow their natural instincts..

There are some fish that looked cute when they are small.
But when they grow large enough and they realize that they can eat their small tankmates, they will definitely eat them.

So similarly for Bettas.
When they are small, they may not bother other small fish. But once they grow bigger, they will become more territorial and they will attack other fish.
 
I laugh every time I see "my fish have been this or that and are happy." I guess their fish can talk to them, because that is the only way to know this.
You're not the only one, whenever I see such a thing that "bettas are community fish" or such other things makes my blood boil.
 
I agree betta are not community fish, I do not know if my fish are "happy" but I can tell if they are healthy and not stressed. I try and give them a good enviorment, like shade, floating plants and plenty of room to swim for my tetra. That is what I go by.
 
I think she was just stressed after the fight. She didn’t by chance swallow any of him did she? Sometimes bones get stuck in that case.
 

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