Betta in community tanks?

[mdlreston]

Hi.

Before the question, a brief history:

My son's 6 gallon tank had a very happy betta for about five months. Then he decided that the betta was lonely and got three zebra danios. They all got along fine for about a month. Yesterday, we woke to find the betta lying on the bottom of the tank. About every thirty seconds he would furiously swim to the top, get a gulp of air and sink exhaustedly to the bottom again. The betta died later that day.

Based on reading various forums, I think he probably had a swim bladder problem. I guess that it might have been brought on by overeating - we've noticed that he liked to eat the algae flakes we fed to the danios. We also recently changed his food from a small golden pellet to a slightly larger black one (Wardley).

My question is: how do other betta owners keep them from overeating in this situation? My son wants to go out and immediately get a new betta, but I'd like to figure out how to keep him alive!

Thanks for any advice!

 

[bittersweet]

I think a simple solution would be to keep the bettas seperate. This can sometimes be a contraversial topic, but IMO from a lot of things I've heard that you shouldnt keep bettas in a community tank. Its all about the personality of the fish's you keep in there and weather they will respond well or not, some do..but most dont. Again its better to keep him seperate so you can moniter his feeding so he doesnt eat the others food and get swim bladder. hope I helped a little..

BTW if your son wants to get another betta, 1 or 2 gal tanks are cheap and you can keep one betta in it really nicely

 

[JoKeR]

I think a simple solution would be to keep the bettas seperate. This can sometimes be a contraversial topic, but IMO from a lot of things I've heard that you shouldnt keep bettas in a community tank. Its all about the personality of the fish's you keep in there and weather they will respond well or not, some do..but most dont. Again its better to keep him seperate so you can moniter his feeding so he doesnt eat the others food and get swim bladder. hope I helped a little..

BTW if your son wants to get another betta, 1 or 2 gal tanks are cheap and you can keep one betta in it really nicely

I agree with here since ur betta liked that kind of flakes or algea get him his own tank so he could live happily. They got a good deal at petsmart 1 gallon kritter keeper 1.99 good deal in my view.

 

[Patrick333]

I have a betta alone in a one gallon and he is very happy(built a bubble nest)

 

[CackD]

When he was swimming to the top to take a gulp of air, was it a straight b-line to the surface?

I'm not so sure that a swim bladder problem is the cause of death here...

 

[wuvmybetta]

I agree with Cack
With swim bladder he would have been swimming funny (on his side) for a good while, very noticably. Do you have an ammonia test kit?

Adding that many fish to that size tank all at once may have thrown it into a mini-cycle. He may have died from ammonia or nitrite poisoning

On another note ...I personally don't keep bettas in communities for many reasons. Their aggression first and foremost. The chance that their fins may be nipped at by the other fish. Bettas like to be solo (IMO), I kept a male in a community for 6 months and he did good although he DID kill occasionally...but he quickly became depressed during the 6th month so I moved him to his own tank and he's great, happy as a clam rather than lying on the bottom of the tank the way he did in the community.

 

[staredecisis]

I was also going to recommend that you test your water perameters.. high nitrates can be the cause of disease sometimes as well.. perhaps you could still pursue a community setup with the betta, if the water was the cause of the problem. Was the tank cycled?

Edit: bettas are definitely like little piggies with fins, and will overeat.. but how was his stomach looking? If it wasn't bulging perhaps he hadn't overeaten?

 

[Cartman8779]

I thought Bettas were okay in a community tank?

Is it still possible to keep one with other fish or should I basically just stay away from it?

Thanks,
Aaron

 

[wuvmybetta]

Hi Cartman

It just depends on the betta. Some are meaner than others . When I first began reading mdlreston's post I assumed the betta killed the danios, but it seems she lucked out and had a pretty mellow guy on her hands.

You can only try and see. You'll be able to tell if he's happy or not.

 

[mdlreston]

Hi everybody!

Thank you all very much for the responses. I'm learning a lot, and appreciate your advice. This was our first betta (his name was Rainbow Diver), and the first fish that we were really sad to see go - he was friendly, reacted to our presence, and had a real personality (well, as much as a fish can have).

The betta was making a straight line up for air. When he got to the top, he took a gulp or two of air and then struggled to control his swimming - he kind of unevenly moved around without really controlling his path through the water until he came to rest on the bottom.

After a couple hours of this, he would go up, get a breath, go limp and drop straight down like a rock smashing his nose into the ground. When he got to this point, I moved him to a very small cup so that his trips would be shorter and easier, but he soon passed.

I can't say that I noticed a significant change in his appearance, except that perhaps his gill area was a bit puffy.

I'll go and get a test kit for the water; I would be surprised if there is a problem because I change the water weekly and it looks nice and clear. The zebra danios appear healthy. Also, the betta seemed perfectly healthy the night before when I said goodnight eight hours before we turned on the tank and saw the problem.

If there are any ideas about what the problem was, please pass them on - I can look them up and see if they match what I observed.

Also, is eating the algae flakes (zebra danio food) a sufficient diet for the betta?

Reactions to some suggestions:
- separate tanks, we don't have the space
- get rid of the zebras: my son is convinced the betta was lonely and he likes the zebras
- the fish got along well - no stress between them at all

Thanks,
mike.

 

[wuvmybetta]

Hi mdlreston

When you say you change the water, how much water do you change? After the tank cycles (read this article for an explanation of cycling http/fish.orbust.net/forums/index.php?sh...showtopic=10099 ) you'll need to do weekly 25-30% changes using a gravel vac.

Zebra danios are some of the hardiest fish, that may be why they held on better than the betta...the behaviour you described is that of a stressed betta. My guess would be ammonia poisoning rather than swim bladder. Did he have an extremely swollen abdomen? Maybe it was dropsy? (pineconey scales?)

Either way...test the water (or take it to your lfs,they'll test it for you) and try again

 

[mdlreston]

Hi!

To be more specific I change about 20 percent of the water per week with 24 hour aged water using aqua pure conditioner.

His abdomen was not noticably swollen. His fins looked totally fine (after he died I looked at him carefully) and he didn't have any noticable spots, holes, or growths. What do "pinecony" scales look like? To my uneducated eye, they looked fine.

Whatever happened, it was very quick. He was his normal happy "king of the tank" self the night before.

 

[wuvmybetta]

If his scales were standing erect from his body, sticking out like a pinecone, then it was dropsy. Just throwing another contender out there for ya.With dropsy the belly becomes extremely swollen and the fish becomes lethargic. I understand it's frustrating not knowing exactly what could have happened.

20% is a good thing, that means the tank WAS cycled before the danios, but the sudden amount of new ammonia that came along with the new fish may hve caused problems for your beneficial bacteria, it could hve been more than it could handle.

 

[bittersweet]

After you posted this thread I noticed my betta starting to the same thing, excpept he has slime on him as well. this morning he was worse and just lying on the bottom and looked dead, when i tapped him he would swim to the top get air and fall to the bottom. his gill area looks pretty swollen as well, I am trying to save him with methyl-blue and batta-fix right now. I wonder if its the same problem your betta had..

I also keep the water very clean, do half changes every 2 days, and full every 4, we also have no chlorine in our water since it is a well, but i still use stress coat every change..

 

[bkk_group]

i'll back wuv up on the subject of keeping bettas separate. they are unique fish who prefer a solitary existance. the only time i have seen them do well is when they are still fry together in the grow-out tank. i know a lot of people try to keep them together and i have no doubt that some suceed but IMO if you just have to keep bettas together in a community tank get a female as they seem to do marginally better. males deserve their own space.
flake food is not enough for bettas, they need more variety, get some frozen bloodworms (or equivelent) and use betta pellets as a staple if you can't get live food.
best of luck to you regardless of how you decide to proceed.