Betta fish resting more than normal?

[H0pefulDad]

Okay it seems as though the lack of energy matches up more with nitrate poisoning than ammonia, and that was also quite high before that one water change, so maybe he's still hurting from that?
I won't know if the salt is helping until I give it some time, but so far he's swam up from his hiding spot twice on his own, going by the heater and trying to squeeze behind the filter (not gonna fit buddy). The first time he swam all around his tank after that for about a minute, going through his log and looking at me like he usually does. But soon he went back to settle in his spot under the leaves, and it looked like he almost twitched a couple of times before completely resting?
The second time was shorter than the first, and he's back resting again, still breathing really hard. I'm going to test the nitrates and then do another small water change later before adding more salt.

 

[mcordelia]

I think continuing to do water changes daily is important right now, and I would keep the salt in as well (when you do water change, pre-mix the salt into the water you are adding). I think nitrate poisoning makes Sense in the scheme of how everything has unfolded. Maybe keep the salt at half dose for up to a week, and then start to gradually dilute it out. But daily water changes are really a must right now. Hang in there

 

[PheonixKingZ]

The daily water changes may help. I don’t think the salt is necessary at this point.

I’m not necessarily sure if he is actually sick.

 

[H0pefulDad]

The daily water changes may help. I don’t think the salt is necessary at this point.

I’m not necessarily sure if he is actually sick.

You only mentioned looking at the pictures I attached earlier, did you watch the videos? I don't know what a betta fish should normally look like breathing while resting at the bottom of their tank, but it seems to me that it's taking him a bit more effort than it should. That along with the change in behavior is enough that I'd rather be safe than sorry.
Also, I think I just noticed a kind of shallow lump looking thing sticking out of him, back by where his swim bladder would be. I can't check right now because he's down for the night and that side is facing away from me, but you can understand why I'm concerned.

 

[mcordelia]

@Colin_T any thoughts for fish exhibiting signs of potential nitrite poisoning but now has a lump? To save you the effort of reading: OP moved a 10 gal betta fish tank a 45min drive away, simultaneously changed out part of the gravel and the filter pad causing a nitrite spike. Fish has been lethargic and breathing heavily (see video from yesterday), and now may have developed a lump. OP is currently doing daily water changes and has salt going in the tank as well.

 

[H0pefulDad]

Ah, no gravel, just sand! And I think the small amount of nitrites and greater than normal nitrates may have been because I delayed doing a water change for a couple of days.

 

[PheonixKingZ]

You only mentioned looking at the pictures I attached earlier, did you watch the videos? I don't know what a betta fish should normally look like breathing while resting at the bottom of their tank, but it seems to me that it's taking him a bit more effort than it should. That along with the change in behavior is enough that I'd rather be safe than sorry.
Also, I think I just noticed a kind of shallow lump looking thing sticking out of him, back by where his swim bladder would be. I can't check right now because he's down for the night and that side is facing away from me, but you can understand why I'm concerned.

Ok, I just watched the video, and his behavior definitely did not seem normal to me...

Usually a betta will be breathing fast, at a steady rate. I could tell yours was sort of shuddering.

Have you noticed any improvement with the water changes?

 

[H0pefulDad]

I just did another small water change of about 20%, and I added another tablespoon of salt to the new water, so the tank should be about the ideal salinity for now.
When I first looked at my betta this morning his gills seemed to be moving slower, but that may have just been because he was asleep? Either way they're moving the same way now, he's back in his spot under the plant and hasn't moved except for when the water was disturbed during the water exchange. I've tried to show him his food can but he won't move.
Update on his appearance, I've thought that his face might be getting paler on the underside for a few days now and while his belly has always had more of a silvery color to it, I saw him swimming upwards last night and was surprised at how light it looked even in the dim lighting. I did more research last night and read that when paling do to illness, bettas tend to start on their heads, bellies and undersides, so that's yet another sign that he's sick. Luckily his eyes at least seem to still be clear.
In the aforementioned researched a learned that any nitrite or nitrate poisoning could've also damaged his gills, and that may be the reason his little beard keeps sticking out when he breathes? Either way the condition it talked about can also be helped by adding salt to the water, so I'm hoping the higher concentration today will help.
I haven't been able to get a look at the small bulge in his side I thought I saw, but if he moves I'll see if I can get a picture of it.

 

[hansgruber7]

I think the best thing you can do at this point is daily water changes and test your water daily for ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate to keep tabs on that.

 

[H0pefulDad]

I'm getting really worried. He came up to eat a couple of pieces of food but now he's almost sideways in his spot, and his gills are going really hard. The air bubbler didn't seem to help him breathe and it almost looks like the underside of his head is getting paler. Even though I added more salt today, this is a big contrast to when I added the first tablespoon yesterday and he seemed to regain some energy.
I'm thinking about giving him a salt bath to see if it helps, but I can't tell if it's too early for that or not. Do any of you think think it might help? I know you need two tubs for it, one with less salt concentration to help transfer him back into his tank without shock, but since his tank water is already salted would I need that additional step?
Okay he's not on his side anymore but for those few minutes he looked really bad.

edit: okay turns out what I'm talking about is called a salt "dip" but I'm still on the fence about trying that or methylene blue.

 

[mcordelia]

The salt dip is probably more benign in terms of chemicals, but involves handling the fish which is stressful to it. I am not sure what disease you would be targeting with the methylene blue?

 

[H0pefulDad]

The problem here is that I'm not sure exactly what disease he has that I need to target. Methylene blue would at least handle any fungal or bacterial possibilities from what I've read, but are you concerned because it could hurt him? I know the salt dip will stress him and could potentially make him pass out, but I didn't find any bad effects that could happen from exposure to methylene blue, only that it's an old remedy for fish disease and I would only need to dip him in it for 10 seconds. Also have been considering catappa leaves again, not necessarily for the lowered pH but because they also apparently have health benefits for sick fish.

 

[mcordelia]

Yeah, unfortunately I really don't know this is totally out of my wheelhouse at this point. From my perspective, it's a question of how much is the fish going to be able to recover on its own (a "time" thing) vs what it could have that needs treating. The life cycle of most parasites is ~6 weeks, and they have to come from somewhere, so if you haven't added anything new to the tank in that time period (like raw food,plants, other fish), then it seems to me that it wouldn't be a parasite. I highly doubt the new sand would have harbored parasite eggs.

So it could be viral, bacterial or fungal. Fungal probably not, since from what I understand most of those are visible on the outside. Viral vs bacterial then.... Viral just like in humans has no treatment, and the best course of action is to strengthen the fish's own immune defenses / body to help it combat it's illness. Bacterial would require antibiotics, but without a definitive diagnosis I'd hesitate to treat for bacterial since it introduces antibiotics into the water supply which is harmful to humans and other animals.

So, maybe the best is to see what happens over the next 24h? You've noticed signs of improvement from the sounds of it, so maybe little guy is working hard to fight off whatever is ailing him. Keeping up with the water changes (remember to add water with salt already mixed in) and trying to feed him as he is able to eat is probably how I would do the next 24h.

I think the unfortunate truth we also have to consider is that most fish illnesses have no cure despite the number of products used. The reason is that their systems are just so different from humans and most fish medications are just human medications adopted for fish use that we just don't have enough knowledge to be able to successfully treat fish.

I think the most likely scenario of what happened is that you had a mini cycle (nitrite spike) which weakened his immune system and made him susceptible to whatever viruses or bacteria are in the water and air around us, and he is working really hard to fight it off. I really really hope he pulls through, but I also think that at this point the best course of action is to stress him the least amount possible and hope that his body is strong enough to fight this off.

 

[mcordelia]

Maybe @NCaquatics has some thoughts on the catappa leaves

 

[CassCats]

Bettas usually respond well to catappa leaves. Ive treated fungal and bacterial infections using only tannins from leaf litter with a corydoras. Its worth a shot to start with. If those don't help, look into something else