Beginner Tank Setup Questions

[Adam567]

I am just seeking some advice on my tank. I am new to the hobby and have purchased a tank which is L 80cm, H 50cm, W 40cm. The tank volume is 142 litre (31 gallons). I am planning on having a sandy bottom with around 5 live plants, and some decorations such as slate, drift wood and ornaments to provide hiding places. The fish I would like to keep is a pair of Bolivian rams, a pair of keyhole cichlids, 5-6 Cory catfish, 3-4 Kuhli loaches, a bristle-nose pleco catfish and possibly some small shoaling fish such as black neon tetra. Firstly I would appreciate advice on if this is feasible to keep these fish together in this size tank? And if so the best process to go through to get this set up? I understand adding water and turning on the heaters and filters 2-3 weeks prior to adding fish is sensible, as well as adding each type of fish 2-3 weeks apart. I have been advised to use seachem prime to add to water prior to adding it to the tank, and to add small quantities of food for the time before fish are added to increase algae growth.

Any advice would be massively appreciated!
Thanks

 

[Sunnyspots]

First, Welcome to the forum!

Regarding setting up the tank before adding fish, there is a whole description of how to achieve this on the website, here:

Cycling Your New Fresh Water Tank: Read This First!

Cycling Your First Fresh Water Tank What is Cycling and Why is it Important? Fish waste, and especially fish breathing, plus uneaten food and other organic matter breaking down in a tank all produce Ammonia. This can quickly become toxic to fish if it is allowed to build up to any measurable...

www.fishforums.net

As for the fish, I will leave that to others with experience in those particular types, but it will very much depend on what your tap water is like. If you check with your water provider or buy test kits you can find out its hardness, pH and other useful information like nitrate levels etc. That, alongside tank size, will be the biggest predictors of suitable fish for you.

 

[ClownLurch]

Welcome mate. Not been round your way since working on Enron Power station in early 90s.
This place is just about the most helpful and knowledgable on the internet, unfortunately I know next to nowt.
Have a read of the cycling your tank section on here. I prefer the silent cycle myself as I’m lazy, though all explanations are both thorough and helpful.
Also find out your water hardness and PH on your water providers website.

edit: as above!

 

[Essjay]

The first thing you need to do is cycle the tank. With just 5 plants a silent cycle is not an option so you'll need to do a fishless cycle before getting any fish. Sunnyspots has given you the link.

This grows all the bacteria needed by a tankful of fish before any fish are put in the tank, and most of the fish can be added once the cycle finishes. It is when fish-in cycling, where the bacteria grow after fish are added, that fish need to be added a few at a time.

You mention adding fish food before fish are added - this is not to grow algae but to grow bacteria. It is one eay of doing a fishless cycle as the food breaks down to make ammonia which grows the bacteria. The disadvantage is that there is no way of knowing how many bacteria have grown, so fish do have to be added slowly. When using bottled ammonia we know exactly how much ammonia is going into the tnak so we know when we have grown enough bacteria.

Any water conditioner can be used, Prime is just one of them. They all remove chlorine from the water making it safe for fish - and the bacteria we need to grow. In Redcar your water won't contain chloramine, just chlorine so you don't need a water conditioner which detoxifies the ammonia that comes from chloramine.

You will also have soft water. Northumbrian Water don't give a number for hardness, they only use words. Those words make the water sound harder than it really is. Can you look on their website and tell us what they say for your hardness - we can get some idea because we know the range that the words cover. For example, mine is 'slightly hard' which means 5.6 to 8.4 dH which is soft in fish keeping.

All the fish you mention are soft water fish. But I would not keep two species of cichlid, just one whichever you prefer.
Cories and kuhli loaches also do better in bigger groups, and again I would choose one or the other.
A bristlenose and most tetras will be fine .




PS Is Tropical House still there?

 

[190gallons]

I agree with essjay from personal exp. The loaches are cool and get along great with each other and Corey's are compatible with just about any community tank fish but they both live and play and work the bottom and i had problems with 2 loaches and 5 corys in a 55 gal tank so most certainly pick one or the other

 

[Heather7465]

I am just seeking some advice on my tank. I am new to the hobby and have purchased a tank which is L 80cm, H 50cm, W 40cm. The tank volume is 142 litre (31 gallons). I am planning on having a sandy bottom with around 5 live plants, and some decorations such as slate, drift wood and ornaments to provide hiding places. The fish I would like to keep is a pair of Bolivian rams, a pair of keyhole cichlids, 5-6 Cory catfish, 3-4 Kuhli loaches, a bristle-nose pleco catfish and possibly some small shoaling fish such as black neon tetra. Firstly I would appreciate advice on if this is feasible to keep these fish together in this size tank? And if so the best process to go through to get this set up? I understand adding water and turning on the heaters and filters 2-3 weeks prior to adding fish is sensible, as well as adding each type of fish 2-3 weeks apart. I have been advised to use seachem prime to add to water prior to adding it to the tank, and to add small quantities of food for the time before fish are added to increase algae growth.

Any advice would be massively appreciated!
Thanks

Adam, with all your fish choices I think you'll have a beautiful tank! Please cycle your aquarium first. Very important. In my honest opinion, I don't think the pair of Keyhole Cichlids is a good idea for a 31 gallon with 13+ other fish. Cichlids are big and need a lot of swimming room. For the keyhole cichlids I'd recommend bigger than a 50 gallon. If you haven't started setting up your aquarium, then purchase a bigger one! If not, then your overstocked tank will have too much bioload. By the way, welcome to the hobby!

 

[Adam567]

First, Welcome to the forum!

Regarding setting up the tank before adding fish, there is a whole description of how to achieve this on the website, here:

Cycling Your New Fresh Water Tank: Read This First!

Cycling Your First Fresh Water Tank What is Cycling and Why is it Important? Fish waste, and especially fish breathing, plus uneaten food and other organic matter breaking down in a tank all produce Ammonia. This can quickly become toxic to fish if it is allowed to build up to any measurable...

www.fishforums.net

As for the fish, I will leave that to others with experience in those particular types, but it will very much depend on what your tap water is like. If you check with your water provider or buy test kits you can find out its hardness, pH and other useful information like nitrate levels etc. That, alongside tank size, will be the biggest predictors of suitable fish for you.

Thank you I have have read through the tank cycling thread and it is very helpful!

 

[Adam567]

Welcome mate. Not been round your way since working on Enron Power station in early 90s.
This place is just about the most helpful and knowledgable on the internet, unfortunately I know next to nowt.
Have a read of the cycling your tank section on here. I prefer the silent cycle myself as I’m lazy, though all explanations are both thorough and helpful.
Also find out your water hardness and PH on your water providers website.

edit: as above!

Thanks for the help!

 

[Adam567]

I agree with essjay from personal exp. The loaches are cool and get along great with each other and Corey's are compatible with just about any community tank fish but they both live and play and work the bottom and i had problems with 2 loaches and 5 corys in a 55 gal tank so most certainly pick one or the other

Thank you for the advice!

 

[Adam567]

The first thing you need to do is cycle the tank. With just 5 plants a silent cycle is not an option so you'll need to do a fishless cycle before getting any fish. Sunnyspots has given you the link.

This grows all the bacteria needed by a tankful of fish before any fish are put in the tank, and most of the fish can be added once the cycle finishes. It is when fish-in cycling, where the bacteria grow after fish are added, that fish need to be added a few at a time.

You mention adding fish food before fish are added - this is not to grow algae but to grow bacteria. It is one eay of doing a fishless cycle as the food breaks down to make ammonia which grows the bacteria. The disadvantage is that there is no way of knowing how many bacteria have grown, so fish do have to be added slowly. When using bottled ammonia we know exactly how much ammonia is going into the tnak so we know when we have grown enough bacteria.

Any water conditioner can be used, Prime is just one of them. They all remove chlorine from the water making it safe for fish - and the bacteria we need to grow. In Redcar your water won't contain chloramine, just chlorine so you don't need a water conditioner which detoxifies the ammonia that comes from chloramine.

You will also have soft water. Northumbrian Water don't give a number for hardness, they only use words. Those words make the water sound harder than it really is. Can you look on their website and tell us what they say for your hardness - we can get some idea because we know the range that the words cover. For example, mine is 'slightly hard' which means 5.6 to 8.4 dH which is soft in fish keeping.

All the fish you mention are soft water fish. But I would not keep two species of cichlid, just one whichever you prefer.
Cories and kuhli loaches also do better in bigger groups, and again I would choose one or the other.
A bristlenose and most tetras will be fine .




PS Is Tropical House still there?

Thanks for the help - I have bottled ammonia and testing kits. Would the best thing to do be to treat water with the seachem prime prior to adding it, and then slowly add the ammonia based on the volume of water within the tank? Or do you mean don't treat water as chloramine will not be present? Please assume no knowledge.

Also thank you for the advice on the fish! Yes the tropical house is still there, although I have not visited for a few years now


Cheers

 

[Adam567]

Adam, with all your fish choices I think you'll have a beautiful tank! Please cycle your aquarium first. Very important. In my honest opinion, I don't think the pair of Keyhole Cichlids is a good idea for a 31 gallon with 13+ other fish. Cichlids are big and need a lot of swimming room. For the keyhole cichlids I'd recommend bigger than a 50 gallon. If you haven't started setting up your aquarium, then purchase a bigger one! If not, then your overstocked tank will have too much bioload. By the way, welcome to the hobby!

Thank you for the advice

 

[Adam567]

I agree with essjay from personal exp. The loaches are cool and get along great with each other and Corey's are compatible with just about any community tank fish but they both live and play and work the bottom and i had problems with 2 loaches and 5 corys in a 55 gal tank so most certainly pick one or the other

Thank you for the advice

 

[Essjay]

Thanks for the help - I have bottled ammonia and testing kits. Would the best thing to do be to treat water with the seachem prime prior to adding it, and then slowly add the ammonia based on the volume of water within the tank? Or do you mean don't treat water as chloramine will not be present? Please assume no knowledge.

Also thank you for the advice on the fish! Yes the tropical house is still there, although I have not visited for a few years now


Cheers

To do a fishless cycle, the tank is filled with water and dechlorinator (eg Prime) is added and the heater and filter turned on. Ammonia is then added in one dose to get an ammonia reading of 3 ppm. If the bottle of ammonia gives the %, there is an ammonia section in the calculator on here

Calculator

It's the last item, and you just enter the volume of the tank and the % ammonia and it will tell you how much ammonia to add. A pipette or syringe is useful for measuring accurate doses. If the bottle doesn't give a %, use 9.5% in the calculator but use a bit less than it says. Test after half an hour (to let the ammonia mix in thoroughly) to see what the ammonia level is and if it's lower than 3 ppm you can add a bit more - but remember how much you add altogether.
Then follow this method

Cycling Your New Fresh Water Tank: Read This First!

Cycling Your First Fresh Water Tank What is Cycling and Why is it Important? Fish waste, and especially fish breathing, plus uneaten food and other organic matter breaking down in a tank all produce Ammonia. This can quickly become toxic to fish if it is allowed to build up to any measurable...

www.fishforums.net

On the days you test ammonia and nitrite, I would also test pH. We have low KH in this area, and KH stabilises pH. Cycling makes acidic things and with low KH it can get used up, then when there's none left the pH drops very low. The bacteria we want to grow do so faster in higher pH so if the pH crashes the bacteria stop multiplying. Checking the pH regularly will catch a downward drift in pH before it crashes. If this does happen, ask on here and I'll tell you what I did.