Beginner In Need Of Advice

[kilgore33]

Hello,
Just switched from Fresh water to marine. have a 90 gallon tank w 110galloon sump. Interested in the following fish, but can't get a straight answer about compatability issues at my local aquarium. Panther Grouper, Racoon Butterfly, Percula And saddleback Clowns, Four stripe Damsel, Zebra Moray, Giant Anglerfish, Zebra and Volitan Lionfish, Achilles And Yellow Tang. I like the Clowns and the Lionfish most. Question 2: Can any of these fish be present during the initial Cycling of my Tank? If not, what fish do you recommend? Question 3: Can I put Live Rock in a "Fish Only Tank" or will it require the lighting needed for reef tanks (Which I don't have). If yes, how much for a 90 gallon tank do you recommend? Should it be put in during the initial "Cycle" period?

 

[Colin_T]

Panther groper gets big (2ft+) and will eat everything

Raccoon butterflies are peaceful but eat corals. They might get hassled by the damsels or saddleback clowns, and might get eaten by the groper or anglerfish.

Never keep more than one species of clownfish in the same tank because they will fight. Also the saddleback clowns (Amphiprion polymnus) gets much bigger than A. percula and would kick the hell out of them really fast.

Four stripe damsel could be anything, do you have a scientific name for it?

Zebra morays get pretty big and will eat small fish like damsels and clowns.

Anglerfish will eat anything that fits in their mouth and even anything up to half their own size.

Zebra lionfish are usually small but will eat small fish. Volitans lionfish grow to a foot long and will eat anything that fits in their mouth.

You could have the Volitans, anglerfish, zebra moray and groper together but a 90gallon tank probably isn't going to be big enough for all of them, (even with the 110g sump) especially for an adult groper.

You cannot have any fish or shrimp in a marine tank while it cycles. This is due to the high PH of seawater (PH of 8.4). When a tank is cycling there is ammonia present in the water. Ammonia is toxic in alkaline water (PH above 7.0). In a marine tank with a PH of 8.4 the ammonia is so toxic it will kill everything in the tank within a matter of minutes, (depending on how high the ammonia actually levels is).

Live rock is fine in a fish only tank. If you have decent lights then you will often get all sorts of nice stuff growing on it. Without good lighting you will probably only get a bit of coralline algae and some normal alga growing on it.

If you are cycling a tank and have a 110g sump attached then I would keep most of the live rock in the sump and only have enough rock in the main display tank to make it look nice. The amount you put in is up to you and how you like it.

You can add the rock during the cycling phase but it depends on whether you are using the rock as the filter, or you are using a power/ trickle filter to keep the water clean. If you are using a power filter and the live rock is cured (has been in a tank for a while and is healthy) then I would wait until it has finished cycling before adding any live rock.

If the rock is new and smells unpleasent then you can add it while the tank is cycling.

 

[kilgore33]

Thanks! Do you think I could keep two A. Percula, A Zebra Lionfish (Or two), and maybe a butterfly fish in the Tank? Or instead of a butterfly maybe a Tang or Triggerfish? Definitely want clowns and Lionfish (If possible) and flexible on the remaining tank mates. Are Lionfish safe w Anemones and corals?

 

[Colin_T]

Clownfish and lionfish don't go together unless you have a dwarf lionfish (maybe Dendrochirus zebra) and a big pr of clowns like Amphiprion clarkii or Premnas biaculeatus.
Percula clowns will get eaten by dwarf lionfish and normal lionfish.

Lionfish are safe with corals and anemones but do eat a lot and create a lot of mess. This can be a problem to the corals & anemones as they need really clean water and that is hard to do when a lionfish is pooing everywhere.

Small lionfish and butterflies can be kept together but you have to get the butterflies first and get them feeding. Most butterflyfish are notoriously hard to get feeding and if you add them to a tank with lionfish, they just won't get any food and will die. If the butterfly is settled into a tank and has been eating well for a month or so, then you could add a small lionfish and they would probably be ok. The same thing applies to a tang except they are usually a bit easier to get feeding, with the exception of the powder blue tang, they're hard to get going.

Lionfish, triggers, eels, and anglerfish do best in a predator tank of their own. Then if you want clownfish in an anemone set up a separate tank for them.

 

[kilgore33]

Again, thank you very much!

 

[rabbut]

Some triggers can nip at Lionfish fins...

 

[kilgore33]

The people at my aquarium keep trying to sell a Fish cycle w Damsels. Seems cruel to get a fish I don't want and possibly kill it during the cycle or have to "Dispose" of it afterwards. Someone recommended "Stability" and "Prime" by Seachem. The directions on the Stability is to add daily w Fish present and monitor ammonia/nitrite/nitrate levels. Can I add Live Cured rock instead and add the bacteria in the Stability to cycle w the Ammonia produced from the live Rock? How much Live rock in a 90 gallon tank?

 

[rabbut]

You want arround 35KG of LR in a 90g as a minimum. Stability is supposed to be a good product, but if you are going to be using LR, you may as well just let it be. If it's cured, the cycle will be a day or two at most with or without it... Make shure you have at least 900gph of flow with LR in, though 1800gph would be better

The idea of cycling with fish is just out-of-date. The method works, but it isn't humane due to high mortality rates...

All the best
Rabbut

 

[andywg]

Anglerfish will eat anything that fits in their mouth and even anything up to half their own size.

Slight correction; expect an anglerfish to eat anything half its size. Eating things their own size is far from uncommon and some species eat fish up to twice their length.

 

[kilgore33]

Thanks! Read a couple of books. Got a bunch of opinions. Formed a quasi-Meta Analysis. Set the Tank up today (Will be Fish Only) w the Sump containing Mechanical/Chemical and Biologic filter (Pump Rio; 540 Gallons/Hr) Will purchase 1-1.5 lbs of Live rock and start a fishless cycle. Will also obtain a Protein skimmer and leave the BioBalls in. Will probably put two small Snowflake Eels, Dwarf Lionfish and a couple of Bigger Maroon Clownfish after the cycle.

Additional Questions:

1. Any particular order for adding the fish? Least aggressive first etc.. All at once?

2. Do not own a quarantine Tank. Do I need one?

3. Do I need a UV Filter in Addition to Live Rock, Protein Skimmer, Sump Filter w Mech/Chem/Bio filtration, and Frequent Water Changes?

4. Is the Pump under powered? Turns over the tank 6X/Hour.



Thank you so much!!!!

 

[rabbut]

1) I'd do the clowns first, after that They will be the hardyist, I'm not shure which is most delicate out of eels and lions though..

2) QT is recomended, but not essential

3) It would be best if you aren't using a QT tank to run UV, but again, not essential

4) Yes, the pump is underpowered if you are having live rock in there that you want to keep live. You want at least 10X an hour for flow. Also, the Rio pumps have a habbit of failing and wiping out the tank in the resulting mess apparently Usualy, I'd just say add another powerhead, but this time I'll say get it swapped out

All the best
Rabbut

 

[Colin_T]

Eels and more delicate than lionfish because they don't have scales to protect them from poor water quality or other chemical contaminants. Eels also jump so you need really good covers on the tank to stop them getting out.

re: Maroon clowns (Premnas biaculeatus), the females get big (about 5inches) but the males stay small (about 2-3inches). This means the male might get eaten by the eels. If you get tomatoe clowns (Amphiprion frenatus) or A. clarkii, then both male and female fish get big (4-5inches).

 

[andywg]

4) Yes, the pump is underpowered if you are having live rock in there that you want to keep live. You want at least 10X an hour for flow. Also, the Rio pumps have a habbit of failing and wiping out the tank in the resulting mess apparently Usualy, I'd just say add another powerhead, but this time I'll say get it swapped out

Depends on the tank. My frogfish does badly with high flow so probably only just has 5x turnover on her tank which is LR only for filtration. 10x isn't an absolute minimum, and certainly isn't once in the realms of FOWLR.

Eels and more delicate than lionfish because they don't have scales to protect them from poor water quality or other chemical contaminants. Eels also jump so you need really good covers on the tank to stop them getting out.

However they do have skin which in some eels is so thick it is more effective at preventing transfer across the skin of the flesh than scales so I don't think your statement is entirely true.