Beginner - Choices

[Meep]

Hi all,
I've just found this site today and have started browsing the threads.  So far 'research' has left me totally undecided on what fish to get so here's another - PLEASE help me choose post
 
First off I'm looking to buy a small tank the one I've priced is Aquael Classic 60 not found any reviews of the kit but mindful I'll likely end up buying a better filter.  It's 60x30x30 54l, which suits the cabinet/position I want to place it.
 
I've been reading the post here about fishless water cycling and know a source for bacteria.  (Hubby has orders to go sweet-talk his sister and is now wondering what he's agreed to!) Beginner here; my experience of owning fish was while growing up, so while I've done water changes before it was a good while ago.  At what point do you add plants?
 
Want to know exactly what fish we'll be buying before the tank is bought let alone set-up, so there'll be no bad impulse buys and the enviroment is created to suit.  Originally the plan was to get a number of Neon Tetra which I'd thought were hardy, but after looking here, thinking thats not so?  I've seen Guppies suggested; they're very pretty but I understood them to be a more difficult choice!  So much conflicting info.
 
Ideally a calm enviro, cheap and cheerful route.
 
Peppered Cory - Only decided on fish - 3/4 recommended
 
? Guppies - 1m:2f
? Glowlight Tetra - min 6
Cherry Barbs / Dories ....
 
Platys and Mollies from what I recall though often pushed as a starter fish, breed reguarly and could mean an overcrowded tank.
 
What makes for a good community (and how many of each for the fish to be happy)?  While I'd like a bright shoul in there, I would like a few different fish; different colours and tank levels.  Then importantly - what fish first.  While I will ask at the pet shop I don't want to rely on one source of info and at the moment I'm wondering if this was the great idea it seemed.
 
All advise greatly appreciated.

 

[bluesword23516]

I'm pretty new and have neons. If they are healthy and they get fed they are grey to have! Guppies are also live bearers like platys swordtails and mollies so they will multiply too. I have a white skirt tetra(only one left at store) they are way pretty! It is a pinkish color and usually isn't too aggressive and fairly active.

 

[Chaydell]

My first fish were neons.  I didn't have any issues.  I think most important thing is the health of the fish coming from your LFS.  If  you get a good healthy stock and do your due diligence in the upkeep they'll be fine.  Cardinal tetras are very similar to neons and are a bit hardier if you're that concerned.  Check them out.  There is not much difference between the two.

 

[Ch4rlie]

to TFF!
 
Well, sounds like you are making the right choice first of all in doing research, great! 

 
And doing a fishless cycle, even better 

 
Ok, am assuming you may have already read the fishless cycle article, if not, here it is, well worth reading 
 
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/421488-cycling-your-new-fresh-water-tank-read-this-first/
 
Then you will need ammonia and possibly a bacteria starter if your hubby can't persuade sis
 
http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?/topic/427161-ammonia-and-bacteria-starter-sources/
 
Would also recommend that you get a water testing kit, like API Freshwater Master Test Kit, these are decent value for money and fairly good, tend to be around £20 to £35 depends where you get it from, online generally cheaper but Maidenhead Aquatic are selling these for £19.99 at the moment, do check the expiry date if you can, just to be sure.
 
And also you will need a bottle of de-chlorinator to make tap water safe. Most are fine, personally I have used Nutrafin Aqua Plus in the past and currently using Seachem Prime without any problems.
These detoxifies chlorine and chloramines from tap water which is harmful to fish.
 
Plants can be added anytime your want, would say best to put plants in straightaway when you set up the tank. The added benefit of plants in a tank is that is more natural and fish like plants as well as being beneficial for cycles and absorbing nutrients from water like nitrates 

 
Easy low tech plants that do not require a lot, would be good for beginners like, Java Fern , anubias, both these need to be tied or glued onto wood or rocks is best, they don't like roots in gravel or sand, stem plants like Elodea and Vallis are pretty good too.
 
Tank stocking is another matter completely, it all comes down to what you like, would recommend you go into a LFS (Local Fish Store) and write down the sort of fish you really like the look of and write them all on this thread and ask if these are suitable for your tank size and how many etc.
 
Agreed that Neon Tetra would not be the best to start off with, they can be fairly sensitive to new tank setups and fluctuating parameters while tank being settled.
 
Cherry Barbs are nice ( I like these !) and a good choice to start off with, then some dwarf cories like panda or pygmy would be a good addition for the bottom of tank and you could a have quite a few of these in a 54litre tank, cories like being in groups of 6+.
 
Would not recommend shrimps at this stage (I know you did not ask about this, but you never know!) The hardiest and cheapest are generally Red Cherry Shrimps and would recommend you get some of these if you want them in a few months after you have stocked your tank with fish, an established tank is best for shrimps.
 
However, you can add snails if you want to, there are a few choices but be warned though that most snails breed prolifically when settled and a good source of food available.
 
Oh and lastly, do not believe everything your LFS says, always best to do your own research or ask on this forum, before buying any live stocking. SO many mistake have been made by listening to LFS or not doing research beforehand.
 
Hope that helps and if you ever get stuck, have a query or unsure, please just ask, and we'll do our best to answer to the best of our abilities. 

 

[ythao01]

Cherry barbs from my experience can get a bit aggressive if not in a shoal of 8 or more. I suggest maybe a livebearer species (guppies, platys, swordtails, Molly's, endlers) and don't worry too much about that 1inch of fish for 1 gallon rule, it's mostly rubbish. 1m/2-3f for live bearers

They all come in many colors and are pretty active.
Male guppies are beautiful with their long flowing fins but the female guppies are a bit plain.
Platys, both sexes are colorful but no super flowy fins (I like the hi-fin platys gives a little more fin).
Swordtails are pretty much platys with super cool looking back tails but I've heard they like to jump.
Molly's are brackish water fish but I've heard they can adapt to fresh water and they have awesome sail fins.
Endlers I don't know much about except they're a bit like guppies

Sure live bearers reproduce fast but it's very exciting to see little baby fish swimming around the bottom of the tank and wondering what color they'll turn out to be. But you'll only get to see if they actually survive living with the bigger fishes. and not too many will survive to adulthood.

Then maybe a honey Gourami or maybe even a dwarf Gourami. The males could get aggressive towards one another but should remain peaceful with other species. But I think dwarf Gourami can be prone to illnesses due to inbreeding. Honeys should be ok tho. females are plain silver and hard to find. (should be a lone male or a female if you find one) they tend to get aggressive when breeding

Corydoras would be really nice to, they'll do ok with gravel but they prefer sandy bottoms.
Danios like a lot of swimming space and are super active usually so I'm not sure if 54L is enough.
Tetras and Rasboras are very cool although I don't have much experience with them. the neon tetras can be a little bit sensitive I know that (at least 6 for all of these guys)

 

[Meep]

Thanks everyone, appreciate the help.
 
Blueword&Chaydell - Thanks - Neons are back on the list then.  I do like watching them and hubby's a fan.
 
Ch4rlie - Thanks for taking the time for such a long post
I've bookmarked the cycle info and hope to buy the tank this week.  Water tester kit I've seen was £35 but I didn't note the name of it, I'll look around more.  The plant names are a big help, I've no idea at all about plants.
 
I like Neons and they're hubby's choice so would make this a somewhat joint adventure (me cleaning, him cooing at the pretties!)
LFS has several little Cordys and I like watching them, from there its choosing what get along well.  LFS were very quick to point out what needed a mature tank and what would grow too big which makes me trust them a bit more.
Not thought about Shrimps as I've not really seen them about before, no snails though - I garden so seeing a snail immediately has me looking for damadge!
 
Ythao1 - Thanks for your help.  I'd heard Gourmai were sensitive and particular on what they'll get along with?
I remember having Mollies and my dad taking a bucket of them back to the LFS, we had shells at the bottom of the tank and rather more than expected survived their parents hunger   they're a pretty mix of colours but I just remember the sudden population surge.
Not heard of Endlers - another to check out.
Sand - I was wondering about a sandy patch but not looked up the practicalities of it, is it harder to keep clean.

 

[the_lock_man]

Cherry barbs from my experience can get a bit aggressive if not in a shoal of 8 or more.

 
This isn't something I've experienced with my small shoal of 6.
 

Danios like a lot of swimming space and are super active usually so I'm not sure if 54L is enough.
 

 
Danios are a slightly odd case, in that there are 2 distinct groups of danio - the temperate and the tropical.
 
Temperate danios, such as zebra, leopard, pearl, are indeed super active, and I would definitely say a 54l is not big enough, and in any event, really need a much lower temperature water than you would want for a tropical species.
 
Tropical danios, on the other hand, are much ideal. Most of these species have been reclassified from Rasbora, which seems to my uneducated eye to be a more sensible choice of taxonomical name. Something like the Celestial Pearl Danio (NB NOT the Pearl Danio) in a group of 6 would be wonderful.

 

[Ch4rlie]

 
Sorry for my long post, was only going to post a few tips but then got into it properly and starting going, 'oh, yes, must mention this and that ' and the post grew from there! 
 
Anyway, hope you managed to make some sense out of that long post and have picked up some good tips!
 
Enjoy! 

 

[Meep]

Ch4lie - Found it a great help

 

[ythao01]

Sand - I was wondering about a sandy patch but not looked up the practicalities of it, is it harder to keep clean.[/quote]

Well, I wouldn't say it's harder but it is pretty different from gravel and I prefer the sand look over gravel. when you clean gravel you could just stick one of those sucky things in there and get the junk out, but with sand the junk will sit on top of it and you have to hover the sucky thing over it instead of sticking it in there or else the sand will also get sucked up. Also consider how close your filter is to the sand bottom because sand may get sucked up, and can (but only if a good amount of sand is sucked up) ruin your filter. not so sure about canister filters tho.

You should also rinse any sand you buy even if it says pre-washed. If you have more then about an inch and a half of sand (4.5cm I think) then you might have to worry about gas bubbles forming, although it is quite rare it can happen in deep substrates. just poking around the sand with a straw or stick will do the trick.

there's also different sand grain sizes from the sand you find on the beach to sand grains about 2-3mm in size. larger sand grains won't get stirred up as much by fish and a bit heavier so it won't get sucked up as easily.