Barebottom cleaning

[Zantru]

Hey, sorry if this in the wrong section but I couldn't really find anything that relates to this. I currently have a flowerhorn in a 75 gallon tank, and he's extremely messy (as flowerhorns go). in any of your guys's experience, what's the most effective way to clean a bare bottom tank?

 

[Byron]

Welcome to TFF.

First off, there should always be a substrate in an aquarium with fish. The substrate--not the filter--is the primary bacteria bed, and there are many species beside nitrifying involved, and they need a home to maintain a healthy tank. For various reasons, some of these bacteria cannot colonize and function anywhere but in the substrate.

Cleaning a bare bottom tank involves daily vacuuming of the detritus; normally this would fall into the substrate, and various bacteria would break it down. This takes considerably longer with a substrate to house this bacteria, and this is part of the problem. Bacterial and other issues can easily occur in such an environment, which is, frankly, dirty. Second, you should clean the bottom glass with a sponge on a regular basis; I've no idea how often this needs doing, just that it does, same reason as above.

More frequent water changes are also needed with no substrate, again because you are leaving out the most important biological component of an aquarium and that has consequences for the fish.

 

[Zantru]

Welcome to TFF.

First off, there should always be a substrate in an aquarium with fish. The substrate--not the filter--is the primary bacteria bed, and there are many species beside nitrifying involved, and they need a home to maintain a healthy tank. For various reasons, some of these bacteria cannot colonize and function anywhere but in the substrate.

Cleaning a bare bottom tank involves daily vacuuming of the detritus; normally this would fall into the substrate, and various bacteria would break it down. This takes considerably longer with a substrate to house this bacteria, and this is part of the problem. Bacterial and other issues can easily occur in such an environment, which is, frankly, dirty. Second, you should clean the bottom glass with a sponge on a regular basis; I've no idea how often this needs doing, just that it does, same reason as above.

More frequent water changes are also needed with no substrate, again because you are leaving out the most important biological component of an aquarium and that has consequences for the fish.

I've been told by numerous sources and experienced myself that flowerhorns are very messy eaters, and can accidentally digest the substrate, which can obviously hurt the fish if digested enough. I'm not calling you wrong or uneducated of course, but I've also seen various other flowerhorn keepers use bare bottom tanks. I've also talked to a few that have been keepers of flowerhorns for over 8-9 years, have told me that bare bottom tanks are superior in keeping a flowerhorn. However, maybe I misread or just misunderstood something you said. If that's the case, please explain it to me.

 

[kwi]

I thought substrates weren't recomended for Flowerhorns.
Edit: Crossed post

 

[Byron]

I've been told by numerous sources and experienced myself that flowerhorns are very messy eaters, and can accidentally digest the substrate, which can obviously hurt the fish if digested enough. I'm not calling you wrong or uneducated of course, but I've also seen various other flowerhorn keepers use bare bottom tanks. I've also talked to a few that have been keepers of flowerhorns for over 8-9 years, have told me that bare bottom tanks are superior in keeping a flowerhorn. However, maybe I misread or just misunderstood something you said. If that's the case, please explain it to me.

My post was only dealing with the disadvantage biologically that having no substrate brings. But you have raised a good point, one that had not entered my thinking previously. From cichlid sites I gather than sand or tile is suggested as the best substrate for this fish. I don't think I've ever seen the tile so no idea how that works but it should provide some surface for the bacteria and that is the real issue with no substrate.

This being a hybrid cichlid we cannot look to the natural habitat for help.

 

[Zantru]

My post was only dealing with the disadvantage biologically that having no substrate brings. But you have raised a good point, one that had not entered my thinking previously. From cichlid sites I gather than sand or tile is suggested as the best substrate for this fish. I don't think I've ever seen the tile so no idea how that works but it should provide some surface for the bacteria and that is the real issue with no substrate.

This being a hybrid cichlid we cannot look to the natural habitat for help.

Thank you for trying to help me. I've actually heard it's extremely easier to clean out the fish poop and stuff in a bare bottom tank, since you don't have any gravel there are no cracks for all the nasty stuff to seep into. Like you said though, yes some bacteria can't form but in my opinion, some good bacteria is less important than my flowerhorn digesting tons of my substrate and eventually either having permanent damage or dying. I do see your point though, and of course in my other aquarium, which is a community tank, there is obviously substrate. Besides, I don't know exactly how tile works either, but it seems as if it's almost the same as just not having anything on the bottom at all. I definitely could be wrong though.

So this brings us back to my original question, what's the best way to clean a bare bottom tank?

 

[kwi]

You can still place decorations, my understanding is the biofilm adheres to all surfaces, decorations, filter media and casing and tank walls, so a glass bottom should also develop a biofilm. A substrate increases the available surface area so there would be more biofilm than without, but for a single fish is it really needed?

 

[Zantru]

You can still place decorations, my understanding is the biofilm adheres to all surfaces, decorations, filter media and casing and tank walls, so a glass bottom should also develop a biofilm. A substrate increases the available surface area so there would be more biofilm than without, but for a single fish is it really needed?

Honestly the amount of decorations depends on the flowerhorn, but my understanding of mine at the moment is that it shouldn't really have that many decorations. Better to have a completely empty tank imo. Decorations give too many edges for the flowerhorn to hit his hump on and stuff

Edit: My view of the biofilm is that yeah since there's only one fish I think that if an area of available biofilm to grow is crossed out, it won't really affect anything majorly. I don't have a super good understanding on biofilm but thats my two cents.