Bacteria Bloom

[shortymet55]

I have a few week old tank that I set up with mature filter media. Right now, Its extremely cloudy. Does this seem like a common case of the bacteria Bloom. New Tank, more fish... It been getting a bit worse for the past 2 days about.

 

[Colin_T]

if the water is green cloudy then it is algae. Decrease the light and this should help

if the water is milky cloudy then it is bacteria and you should cut down on fish food and waste in the water.

Doing 50% daily water changes for a week will help to fix both problems.

 

[backtotropical]

Doing 50% daily water changes for a week will help to fix both problems.

I'm going to disagree with that, Colin.

Water changes should help solve an algae bloom, but in bacterial blooms, the bacteria left in the tank will reproduce pretty quickly to compensate for the loss of the others. Bacterial blooms are caused by heterotrophic bacteria which can reproduce in around 20 minutes.

The only ways to beat a bacterial bloom are to either leave it to settle on its own, or remove its food source ie. the organic waste which usually accumulates in the substrate.

BTT

 

[Gatorbait]

Doing 50% daily water changes for a week will help to fix both problems.

I'm going to disagree with that, Colin.

Water changes should help solve an algae bloom, but in bacterial blooms, the bacteria left in the tank will reproduce pretty quickly to compensate for the loss of the others. Bacterial blooms are caused by heterotrophic bacteria which can reproduce in around 20 minutes.

The only ways to beat a bacterial bloom are to either leave it to settle on its own, or remove its food source ie. the organic waste which usually accumulates in the substrate.

BTT

...And I'll have to disagree with you. Not saying I'm correct and you're not but jmo is all.

Bacterial blooms are caused by hetorotrophic bacteria, I agree, but that heterotrophic bacteria is not essential to the cycle. In fact, they do a lot more harm than good.

Although they are nitrobacteracae, they need to be in the millions more to do the same job as beneficial bacteria like Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter. All of these bacteria need oxygen to survive. Beneficial bacteria needs 17- 24 hours to double and heterotrophics need just 15 minutes, like you noted which makes them even more of a problem and danger from the fish starving of oxygen and dieing, especially over time so the best thing to do is wc's to get rid of them asap like Colin_T mentioned.

Through dissimilation (which is the denitrifying process, exactly opposite of what we want) hetortrophic bacteria can also turn harmless nitrates into more harmful nitrites and ammonia. It's been proven, documented and lab-tested. (I read it years ago so can't show you) This is obviously extremely dangerous and the fact that they can reproduce every 15 minutes makes it even moreso.

The good or "true" nitrifying bacteria is autotrophic, not heterotrophic.

WC's need to be done asap and often to get rid of this, imo.

 

[backtotropical]

Some of your information is good there Gator but not all of it. Heterotrophic bacteria are in fact essential to the cycle in the sense that if the heterotrophic bacteria weren't present, there would be no ammonia, and therefore no cyle at all.

I agree that they are around 1,000,000 times less efficient at the oxidisation of ammonia, and most heterotrophs are incapable of oxidising nitrite, however they will only undertake nitrification in an aerobic environment ie. the water column, if at all (they will usually only do this under laboratory conditions).

Similarly, they will only undertake the process of dissimilation in an anaerobic or very low oxygen environment, so the bacteria floating in the water during a bacterial bloom are technically incapable of denitrification (also known as dissimilation) as their environment is invariably aerobic.

Some heterotrophs are strictly 'aerobic', but some are 'facultative anaerobic' which means they can adapt to either aerobic or anaerobic conditions depending on their environment, but will perform different functions in each state (Usually if not always nitrification in aerobic conditions and dissimilation in anaerobic conditions).

The only real threat of a bacterial bloom is that the free-floating bacteria will be in an aerobic state, and therefore oxygen hungry. I have never heard of fish dying because of oxygen depravation during a bloom, only due to the ammonia spike which is often caused by these blooms (most people think that the ammonia spike causes the bloom, but in fact it is the other way round), however that is not to say it can't happen.

Water changes aren't essential during blooms, although as you say they will help with oxygen saturation, but wouldn't it be easier to add some extra aeration instead of changing water all the time? I believe that in most cases, probably neither is required.

Even if water changes are performed, as you say, the heterotrophs reproduce in around 15 - 20 minutes, so that means a 50% change would be required at least every 15 minutes to stay on top of things. Not very practical to say the least. As i said above, the only real ways to deal with bacterial blooms is to sit it out and wait, or remove the build up of organic waste which is causing the bloom in the first place.

BTT