Baby Dat

[nmonks]

Because young fry are found in brackish water doesn't mean the fish spends all of its life in brackish water; the adults may just move into brackish water to spawn

No evidence that this the case at all. The contrary in fact, both Datnioides polota and Datnioides campbelli are mostly found in brackish water at all stages of their life cycle.

I have never owned a silver tiger but have know people and shops that keep them in full fresh water with no problems at all

This is the Russian Roulette argument: you play once, you don't die, therefore it's a safe game. Besides, shops will always keep brackish water fish in freshwater if they can: they are easier to sell as freshwater fish, and that's all most shops care about.

Datnioides campbelli I have kept in full fresh water for close to 5 yrs with no problems at all

Datnioides campbelli is found in freshwater rivers up to 900 km inland. They obviously have a very high tolerance for freshwater. But they are much more common in brackish water, and as well as they do in freshwater, they presumably do even better in brackish. You may well have your reasons for keeping your specimens in freshwater, but in doing so you are keeping your fish in "unnatural" conditions. Will it live as long in freshwater as in brackish? Is it more prone to diseases? Will it grow to full size? You maintain your fish very well, I've seen the pictures. But in less perfect conditions, will Datnioides campbelli be easier to maintain in brackish water than fresh, as is the case with mollies and bumblebee gobies, for example.

So if you go on the stuff you read then the Datnioides polota and Datnioides campbelli both need brackish water which I can say 100% for sure Datnioides campbelli don't need.

It's not "stuff you read" but how they live in the wild. There's no question that they can thrive in freshwater environments, but they don't seem to seek them out in the wild, and most specimens are found in brackish water. End of story really. If you prefer to keep your fish in environments that mimic what they like in the wild, Datnioides polota and Datnioides campbelli are both brackish water fishes.

Cheers, Neale

 

[T1KARMANN]

dat cambelli was very hard to find this chould be due to the fact that they were looking for them in brackish water

now fishing has started in fresh water chould be why we are seeing more of them for sale

dat cambelli are found in both fresh and brackish waters so what that tells me is they can live in both as they have the choice to stay were they are in fresh water or migrate to brackish waters

look at monos they are found in brackish waters when young but them move to full salt as they grow older

its up to each person how they keep their fish but dat cambelli will be fine in full fresh water i have had more than one 4 in total all of which were fine in fresh water so this is not just a one off

silver tigers i have no idear as they even look like a brackish water fish to me so i have never owned one

people told me that rays needed to be kept in a tank on their own and chouldnt breed at an age less than 3yrs wrong

my dat cambelli has been kept in full fresh water for chose to 5yrs as far as im conserned that prof they are fine in full fresh water

who know what is possable in a tank unless you try and work hard on your tank

 

[nmonks]

dat cambelli was very hard to find this chould be due to the fact that they were looking for them in brackish water. now fishing has started in fresh water chould be why we are seeing more of them for sale

No, nothing to do with this. It's because they're found only in New Guinea, and exports of fish from New Guinea are very patchy but steadily improving. Until around 2000 there was also a lot of political instablity, which made setting up a business in New Guinea difficult at best.

dat cambelli are found in both fresh and brackish waters so what that tells me is they can live in both as they have the choice to stay were they are in fresh water or migrate to brackish waters

Arothron hispidus is found in both fresh and brackish waters, but that doesn't stop it really being a marine fish. Hypostomus plecostomus is found in brackish water, but it is still a freshwater fish at heart. How euryhaline fish choose where they live at any given time is complex and based on many different factors. There are some experiments into what harm (if any) being kept at the wrong salinity does over time. In some cases, you are right, brackish water fishes in the wild can be kept in freshwater aquaria without problems. Sarotherodon melanotheron, the black-chin tilapia, is a classic example. But in other cases, this doesn't seem to be the case, as with some of the pufferfish like the figure-8, which seem to live twice as long in brackish water tanks compared to freshwater tanks.

look at monos they are found in brackish waters when young but them move to full salt as they grow older

I wish I had a dollar for every time someone said this! They really don't do this. Monos (and scats) swim in and out of estuaries their entire lives. Monos do indeed spawn in freshwater, whereas scats seem to spawn in the sea, but beyond that you will find fish of all ages in waters at a variety of salinities. Adults of both can be found many miles inland, as well as far offshore in the sea.

its up to each person how they keep their fish but dat cambelli will be fine in full fresh water i have had more than one 4 in total all of which were fine in fresh water so this is not just a one off

I'd put this down to you being very good at keeping fish and taking excellent care of things like water quality. But until you've tried keeping them in brackish water as well, you can't *objectively* say that keeping them in freshwater is better.

silver tigers i have no idear as they even look like a brackish water fish to me so i have never owned one

It's not just me saying they're brackish water fish. So does Aqualog, and so does Fishbase.

Cheers, Neale

 

[T1KARMANN]

It's not just me saying they're brackish water fish. So does Aqualog, and so does Fishbase.

Cheers, Neale
[/quote]

aqualog also states that motoro rays only grow to 16inch disk like i said dont belive everything you read

like i said my cambelli has been around for 5yrs in which time if it was going to show any side affects from living in full freshwater im sure i would have seen them buy now

if you put any other brackish water fish in full fresh im sure you would see problems in less than 2yrs

 

[nmonks]

Not necessarily. With figure-8 puffers, you see the fish live for 7 years instead of 14 years when kept in brackish. The only time monos have spawned in aquaria is when they are kept in freshwater, and yet by every other standard they are healthier in brackish or marine conditions. Platax pinnatus lives in mangroves as a juvenile (hence the leaf-like shape) but even keeping it alive in the relatively stable conditions in a reef tank is 99% of the time impossible. The whole issue of what brackish water fish "need" is extremely complex.

I prefer to recommend that people keep fish in similar conditions to those they experience in the wild, but obviously this is a non-argument with brackish water fishes since we *can't* replicate varying salinity environments in the aquarium. So the best you can do is try to find a safe middle ground. If freshwater works for you, that's great. But if people ask me what conditions D. polota or D. campbelli require, the answer is always brackish water since that's the closest thing to their normal environment.

Cheers, Neale

if you put any other brackish water fish in full fresh im sure you would see problems in less than 2yrs

 

[T1KARMANN]

i will still tell people that cambelli are fine when kept in full fresh as that what i have seen

i have yet to know anyone who is keeping their cambelli in brackish water and would love to hear from anyone who has kept a cambelli for more than 5yrs in fresh or brackish water

 

[invader]

Wow, I haven't checked this thread in a while and it's become a heated debate! Thank you for the compliments on the fish and the load of information on brackish water Datnoids!

 

[T1KARMANN]

Wow, I haven't checked this thread in a while and it's become a heated debate! Thank you for the compliments on the fish and the load of information on brackish water Datnoids!

no heated debate haer just a diffrant opinion

i know lots of people who keep dat cambelli and none of them have put them in brackish water

siver tigers no idear never owned on

but all the others including yours are fine in full fresh water

 

[CFC]

I've just seen that BAS in Bolton actually keep their cambelli in brackish water with an SG of 1.004 acording to their stock page.

 

[T1KARMANN]

I've just seen that BAS in Bolton actually keep their cambelli in brackish water with an SG of 1.004 acording to their stock page.

and BAS are lucky if they keep their tigers alive for more than a few weeks

they lost 10 out of 15 from one of the batches they had in once

if you think about a cambelli in a brakish tank with monos scats archers (their are others i know but naming fish the cambelli wouldnt eat) the cambelli would just look wrong and out of place but a silver tiger would look right at home

 

[T1KARMANN]

Right i have done some looking around and cant find anyone who keeps their cambelli in brackish water

from what i have asked people they all stated the same a cambelli would look out of place in a brackish water tank with monos scats and archers but a silver tiger would look right at home

i have found a fair few people who keep the silver tigers in with the othe fish mentioned above

 

[andywg]

Right i have done some looking around and cant find anyone who keeps their cambelli in full fresh water

from what i have asked people they all stated the same a cambelli would look out of place in a brackish water tank with monos scats and archers but a silver tiger would look right at home

i have found a fair few people who keep the silver tigers in with the othe fish mentioned above

But this isn't about what the fish would look at home with, it is about recreating the natural waters which the fish would be found in in the wild.

 

[T1KARMANN]

Right i have done some looking around and cant find anyone who keeps their cambelli in full fresh water

from what i have asked people they all stated the same a cambelli would look out of place in a brackish water tank with monos scats and archers but a silver tiger would look right at home

i have found a fair few people who keep the silver tigers in with the othe fish mentioned above

But this isn't about what the fish would look at home with, it is about recreating the natural waters which the fish would be found in in the wild.

what it is about is if the info posted hear and in aqua log or fish base is wrong which i have a feeling it is its not the 1st mistake they have made and im sure it wont be the last

until lately cambelli were very hard to find and their was hardly any info on them

as we cant find anyone who keeps them in brackish water how do we know if they will do much better in brackish water all we know for sure is they do great long term in freshwater long term being 5yrs+

if you can find anyone who has kept cambelli long term in brackish water i will listern if they can show detailed info of them being kept in brackish water

i can provide photos of my cambelli in full fresh water from 2inch up to 12inch with no problems i would like to see the same info on a cambelli kept in brackish long term to show how much better it is doing

 

[andywg]

what it is about is if the info posted hear and in aqua log or fish base is wrong which i have a feeling it is its not the 1st mistake they have made and im sure it wont be the last

Humour me here.

What other fish has aqualog and/or fishbase got completely wrong about the salinity of the waters it comes from? I am not aware of any at this point in time, yet am willing to be educated.

The only problems I have come across on fishbase has been some erroneous maximum sizes.

until lately cambelli were very hard to find and their was hardly any info on them

However it now appears they come from brackish waters. I am not doubting you have grown yours well in freshwater, and it may well be that they can easily move from low salinity brackish to freshwater with little problems.

Surely you can see the case for recommending that a fish found in brackish waters in the wild is kept in brackish water when house in an aquarium?

 

[T1KARMANN]

look i know 100% for sure that cambelli will be fine in full fresh water for 5yrs +

until someone keeps a cambelli in a brackish water tank for longer than that 5yrs with better results that i have had then i will say the info on fish base or in aqualog is wrong as they state they should be kept in a brackish tank not brackish/fresh water