Autotrophic Bacteria

[fatheadminnow]

I know they live in the water?

But how do they survive? If there is chlorine added to our tap water, how do they not die from the chlorine?

Just curious!

Thanks guys!

-FHM

 

[Mr Bliss]

Well it does take much longer for the nitrifying bacteria to settle in if you don't "seed" a new tank in any way, but eventually they always seem to arrive. Tap water is never completely free of bacteria despite the addition of chlorine/chloramine. Nitrifying bacteria (and/or archaea, the role of which in aquaria seems to be poorly understood at the moment) are capable of surviving in the pipes, and apparently in significant numbers. For example, where I live the ammonia level of the water that comes out of the tap is lower than in the water that leaves the plant (tested by the water company), indicating that some nitrification must be happening along the way.

Then there's the fact that ample amounts of living and dormant bacteria exist on and inside any fish and plants that you add to the tank.

 

[three-fingers]

Yup, there's your answer - they come in the tap. Hence so many people get away without using dechlorinator, and Bignose has written a few really good posts about how the bacteria appear to be able to use the "amine" (ammonia) part of chloramine as a food source and the chlorine just gasses off.

Still wouldn't recommend washing filter media under the tap (I know loads of cases where this has been fatal to the fish) or not using dechlorinator (if you use a decent brand, it's so cheap it would be silly not to) - but this knowledge has given me great license not to worry too much about the little things like adding water straight from the tap and then dechlorinating.

 

[fatheadminnow]

Thanks for the replies!

So, even though there is chlorine in the water, the bacteria can still live in it and not die? Cool!

-FHM

 

[Bignose]

Thanks for the replies!

So, even though there is chlorine in the water, the bacteria can still live in it and not die? Cool!

-FHM

Not really all that cool. Because if the cloramine is being consumed by the bacteria, then there isn't enough chloramine to kill off the bacteria we really don't want growing in our water, like E. coli and the like. So, more expensive alternative methods have to be developed and implemented to make sure that we get good clean water to drink.

 

[Jonathangerous]

"For example, where I live the ammonia level of the water that comes out of the tap is lower than in the water that leaves the plant (tested by the water company), indicating that some nitrification must be happening along the way."

not necessarily true. Reactivity along with way with any sort of abiotic factor could easily cause this--such as strong oxidizers, etc. Even minimal reactivity should still show a decrease in this manner. I do agree, though, that these organisms so live in significant numbers in pipes and the like.

the general rule goes that if you can think of a compound, some bug somewhere can probably metabolize it.

 

[Mr Bliss]

not necessarily true. Reactivity along with way with any sort of abiotic factor could easily cause this--such as strong oxidizers, etc. Even minimal reactivity should still show a decrease in this manner. I do agree, though, that these organisms so live in significant numbers in pipes and the like.

Good point. I actually thought of other causes of oxidation just last night when I read someone suggesting that soil substrates be boiled to oxidize the ammonia before setting up a (planted) tank. Then I thought of chloramine breaking down in the pipes, which should cause an increase in the ammonia level along the way, and tried to figure out if anything but bacterial activity could compensate for this. Then my brain exploded and I went to sleep.

 

[fatheadminnow]

not necessarily true. Reactivity along with way with any sort of abiotic factor could easily cause this--such as strong oxidizers, etc. Even minimal reactivity should still show a decrease in this manner. I do agree, though, that these organisms so live in significant numbers in pipes and the like.

Good point. I actually thought of other causes of oxidation just last night when I read someone suggesting that soil substrates be boiled to oxidize the ammonia before setting up a (planted) tank. Then I thought of chloramine breaking down in the pipes, which should cause an increase in the ammonia level along the way, and tried to figure out if anything but bacterial activity could compensate for this. Then my brain exploded and I went to sleep.

Thanks guys for the responses!

-FHM

 

[Bignose]

the general rule goes that if you can think of a compound, some bug somewhere can probably metabolize it.

The truly amazing thing about this statement is that is applied not only to natural compounds, but it doesn't take nature too long to develop bugs that metabolize completely artificial compounds as well. Nylon is a completely man-made compound, not existing in nature that has been discovered. It was invented in 1935. In 1975 a strain of bacteria was discovered that could consume and survive off of byproducts of nylon manufacturing, even though such compounds as only existed for 40 years.

http/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nylon
http/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nylon-eating_bacteria

40 years is nothing compared to the length of time the life has been around on the planet, and yet that is all it took for a bug to develop to metabolize a completely new never-before-existed compound. Every time I learn about something like this, I realize that even given how much we do know about nature today, we know so very very little in total. There is so much to keep learning.