Are there LFS's selling endangered fish?

[elephantnose3334]

I just wanted to check because I like conservation and endangered fish. I just want to see that LFS's sell these fish and are they actually helping them fight back extinction?

 

[Colin_T]

Most shops can't get critically endangered fish and CITES stops the trade in most endangered species, which is sort of dumb because if people get the fish, they can breed them and help keep the species alive.

There is a native fish in the south-west of WA called the salamander fish (Lepidogalaxias salamandroides). It's going extinct because of climate change (lack of rain) and habitat destruction (main roads widening roads and filling in drainage ditches where the fish lives). The state and federal government don't care about this fish and it's illegal to collect them because they are normally found in national parks. Nobody has bred them yet and most people have never heard of them. They will disappear before anyone cares. These fish are unique and have been around since the dinosaurs. They are the only fish in the world that can move its head separately from its body. They dig a hole and aestivate during the dry seasons and if the fish hasn't gained enough body weight before aestivating, or the summer is longer than normal, the fish die in its cocoon.

There were 2 new rainbowfishes found in the Northern territory a few years ago and potentially many more species to be discovered all around the world. It's not just fish either, there are new birds, insects, plants and retiles still being discovered. All wild fish and animals are endangered now and so are people.

 

[Lcc86]

It's probably not as simple as just selling them, much the same as with any endangered animal, conservation should focus on breeding in captivity with the aim of restoring the wild habitat so that they can eventually be reintroduced. Selling them in an LFS wouldn't really achieve that goal, and creating a private market for endangered animals could make the situation worse.

 

[elephantnose3334]

Most shops can't get critically endangered fish and CITES stops the trade in most endangered species, which is sort of dumb because if people get the fish, they can breed them and help keep the species alive.

There is a native fish in the south-west of WA called the salamander fish (Lepidogalaxias salamandroides). It's going extinct because of climate change (lack of rain) and habitat destruction (main roads widening roads and filling in drainage ditches where the fish lives). The state and federal government don't care about this fish and it's illegal to collect them because they are normally found in national parks. Nobody has bred them yet and most people have never heard of them. They will disappear before anyone cares. These fish are unique and have been around since the dinosaurs. They are the only fish in the world that can move its head separately from its body. They dig a hole and aestivate during the dry seasons and if the fish hasn't gained enough body weight before aestivating, or the summer is longer than normal, the fish die in its cocoon.

There were 2 new rainbowfishes found in the Northern territory a few years ago and potentially many more species to be discovered all around the world. It's not just fish either, there are new birds, insects, plants and retiles still being discovered. All wild fish and animals are endangered now and so are people.

There's a fish that moves their head separately from their body?! I want to learn more about the salamander fish. We hobbyists want to care for this fish before it disappears in time forever. How did you know this unique fish?
Some indigenous people living in rainforests are endangered due to colonisation by the European powers that happened centuries ago.

 

[Colin_T]

There's a fish that moves their head separately from their body?! I want to learn more about the salamander fish. We hobbyists want to care for this fish before it disappears in time forever. How did you know this unique fish?

I read about them in a Field Guide to Freshwater Fishes of Western Australia. I then went south and found some. The very first one I caught was bigger than the described maximum length and it got eaten by a huge female marron (freshwater crayfish). The people I was with said lets eat the marron but she had eggs so I released her. I wasn't too happy about the marron eating the fish. I then caught more fish and did some research. One of the guys in ANGFA WA (Graham Thompson) did research on them and gave me a copy of his papers to read.

When I was catching my first salamander fish, my friend was sitting on a bucket on the bank. He said you should see this. I said what is it. He goes it's a frog. He found the tiniest frog in the country and possibly the world. These things were mature and breeding and you could put 10 of them on a 5 cent coin. For people not in Australia, our 5 cent coin is about 10mm diameter. I had photos but lost them in 2016, but these frogs were about 3mm long and mature.

We also found a new species of pygmy perch but it wasn't known as a new species until some years later when Dave Morgan from Murdoch Uni found them and reclassified them. And I didn't find that out until one of the members on this forum (Forest), I think it was on this forum, contacted me and we were discussing freshwater fish from the south-west. He went out and caught some and said they are new.

On the same collecting trip when I got my first salamander fish, I also found a head in a plastic shopping bag and in another river I surveyed, I found a bleached white human skull and a leg bone. And that ladies & gentlemen, is why I always wore waders when collecting fish.

 

[elephantnose3334]

I read about them in a Field Guide to Freshwater Fishes of Western Australia. I then went south and found some. The very first one I caught was bigger than the described maximum length and it got eaten by a huge female marron (freshwater crayfish). The people I was with said lets eat the marron but she had eggs so I released her. I wasn't too happy about the marron eating the fish. I then caught more fish and did some research. One of the guys in ANGFA WA (Graham Thompson) did research on them and gave me a copy of his papers to read.

When I was catching my first salamander fish, my friend was sitting on a bucket on the bank. He said you should see this. I said what is it. He goes it's a frog. He found the tiniest frog in the country and possibly the world. These things were mature and breeding and you could put 10 of them on a 5 cent coin. For people not in Australia, our 5 cent coin is about 10mm diameter. I had photos but lost them in 2016, but these frogs were about 3mm long and mature.

We also found a new species of pygmy perch but it wasn't known as a new species until some years later when Dave Morgan from Murdoch Uni found them and reclassified them. And I didn't find that out until one of the members on this forum (Forest), I think it was on this forum, contacted me and we were discussing freshwater fish from the south-west. He went out and caught some and said they are new.

This fish is very interesting. What happened to their habitats? You mentioned that the fish died while dormant because the widened roads were built.

 

[Colin_T]

Main roads WA, the government department that builds roads in this state, was widening the country roads because they were too narrow and very dangerous. In the process of widening the roads, they cleared about 50 meters of bushland on either side of the road and filled in all the wetland habitat. Then they build the new road over top. They basically filled the ponds with dirt and covered them in bitumen to make the roads wider. Not all the areas were destroyed but several hundred kilometers of road were put down and the fish only lives in an area half that size.

The remaining habitat gets less water every year and the fish don't get enough time to grow, mature, breed, gain weight, and aestivate. If they do aestivate and don't have enough fat reserves, they die. If the rains are late they die. If the pools dry up before they should due to a warmer climate, they die.

These fish spend about 6 months in shallow pools and 6 months underground sleeping in a mucous lined cocoon and rely on regular rainfall and cool conditions to survive. That is something they won't be getting with a warming climate.

The native orchids in the south-west of WA are also endangered because they need lots of rain in winter and spring so they can grow a decent sized bulb. The plants then go dormant in late spring, early summer, and if their bulbs aren't big enough, the plants die during the warm weather.

 

[elephantnose3334]

Main roads WA, the government department that builds roads in this state, was widening the country roads because they were too narrow and very dangerous. In the process of widening the roads, they cleared about 50 meters of bushland on either side of the road and filled in all the wetland habitat. Then they build the new road over top. They basically filled the ponds with dirt and covered them in bitumen to make the roads wider. Not all the areas were destroyed but several hundred kilometers of road were put down and the fish only lives in an area half that size.

The remaining habitat gets less water every year and the fish don't get enough time to grow, mature, breed, gain weight, and aestivate. If they do aestivate and don't have enough fat reserves, they die. If the rains are late they die. If the pools dry up before they should due to a warmer climate, they die.

These fish spend about 6 months in shallow pools and 6 months underground sleeping in a mucous lined cocoon and rely on regular rainfall and cool conditions to survive. That is something they won't be getting with a warming climate.

The native orchids in the south-west of WA are also endangered because they need lots of rain in winter and spring so they can grow a decent sized bulb. The plants then go dormant in late spring, early summer, and if their bulbs aren't big enough, the plants die during the warm weather.

Are the salamanderfish as old as the dinosaurs? How did it survive THAT long?

 

[Colin_T]

Most fishes have been around for longer than dinosaurs. Fish were here and then the land animals popped up. There are lots of fossils showing fish that predate the dinosaurs and they resemble the fish of today, almost identically. Water was a much more stable environment than land and fish could travel further than land animals. So when bad things happened on land, the creatures in the water usually (but not always) survived.

 

[elephantnose3334]

Most fishes have been around for longer than dinosaurs. Fish were here and then the land animals popped up. There are lots of fossils showing fish that predate the dinosaurs and they resemble the fish of today, almost identically. Water was a much more stable environment than land and fish could travel further than land animals. So when bad things happened on land, the creatures in the water usually (but not always) survived.

Do you have good photos of the salamanderfish?

 

[Colin_T]

Do you have good photos of the salamanderfish?

not any more. I lost everything in 2016.

 

[elephantnose3334]

not any more. I lost everything in 2016.

That's sad to hear. What was the reason why everything about your first salamanderfish and so on got lost?

 

[Colin_T]

Two JPs (justice of the peace) at Perth magistrate's court threw me out of my home in 2016 because my abusive sister lied to them, and they didn't follow protocol when they issued a violence restraining order (vro) against me. They cost me everything I owned and cared about and denied me basic human rights, and any sort of judicial process before doing it. I was presumed guilty and was left to die on the street like an unwanted dog with nothing but the clothes on my back. I got robbed, mugged, raped, had a heart attack, got sunburnt and frost bite, and started coughing up and pooping blood. After 7 months dying on the street, I hadn't slept properly during that time, I hadn't eaten for 3 days, I was crapping and coughing up blood, and I went up against a qualified lawyer and won. But I didn't get back into my home. I was arrested for allegedly breaching a restraining order even though the magistrate cancelled it the day before and said I could go home.

I was arrested 6 times in total between August 2016-August 2017 for allegedly breaching the vro, even though it had been cancelled. The cops simply didn't remove it from their system so every time my sister called them, they put a warrant for my arrest on their system with it. This continued until I contacted the magistrate's court and asked if the vro had been reinstated and was told no. I explained what had been happening and the lady at the courts said the lazy cops hadn't removed me from the system. She sorted it out for me but she wasn't happy with the cops.

I had an external hard drive in my room that had photos and videos of my pets and girls and that disappeared while I was on the street. I will never see any of them again because they are all dead. And nobody in the courts, cops or government wants to respond to my correspondence about this matter, let alone say sorry we destroyed your life and cost you everything you cared about. And I can't get counselling about this because I need a doctor to refer me to the nut house but I can't find a doctor who is taking on new patients. So I'm a bit annoyed about this whole ordeal and have a great deal or anger and hostility towards those who did this to me.

 

[elephantnose3334]

Two JPs (justice of the peace) at Perth magistrate's court threw me out of my home in 2016 because my abusive sister lied to them, and they didn't follow protocol when they issued a violence restraining order (vro) against me. They cost me everything I owned and cared about and denied me basic human rights, and any sort of judicial process before doing it. I was presumed guilty and was left to die on the street like an unwanted dog with nothing but the clothes on my back. I got robbed, mugged, raped, had a heart attack, got sunburnt and frost bite, and started coughing up and pooping blood. After 7 months dying on the street, I hadn't slept properly during that time, I hadn't eaten for 3 days, I was crapping and coughing up blood, and I went up against a qualified lawyer and won. But I didn't get back into my home. I was arrested for allegedly breaching a restraining order even though the magistrate cancelled it the day before and said I could go home.

I was arrested 6 times in total between August 2016-August 2017 for allegedly breaching the vro, even though it had been cancelled. The cops simply didn't remove it from their system so every time my sister called them, they put a warrant for my arrest on their system with it. This continued until I contacted the magistrate's court and asked if the vro had been reinstated and was told no. I explained what had been happening and the lady at the courts said the lazy cops hadn't removed me from the system. She sorted it out for me but she wasn't happy with the cops.

I had an external hard drive in my room that had photos and videos of my pets and girls and that disappeared while I was on the street. I will never see any of them again because they are all dead. And nobody in the courts, cops or government wants to respond to my correspondence about this matter, let alone say sorry we destroyed your life and cost you everything you cared about. And I can't get counselling about this because I need a doctor to refer me to the nut house but I can't find a doctor who is taking on new patients. So I'm a bit annoyed about this whole ordeal and have a great deal or anger and hostility towards those who did this to me.

Oh no... Why was your sister abusive towards you? Your life deserves better. I'm sorry that happened to you. It's sad to hear that happened by the hands of the law.

 

[Colin_T]

My sister is a paranoid delusional psychopath who needs to see a psychiatrist.