Appistogramma for 20 gallon?

[cowgirluntamed]

So...I'm kind of liking the apistogramma cacatuoides. Would one male or a pair fit in a 20 gallon high? SF seems to think a pair.....but other sites say 30? Or a 20 long is better. But that's not what I have. Lol.

Dimensions are 24" long by 12" wide by 16.5" tall.

If I only had one,if the tank would work, could a top dweller work in the tank too? If so, what kind would I be looking at? I'm honestly not looking to breed. And I haven't been to the pet store 50 mins from me yet. So I don't know if they would take babies for credit or not. Hopefully a trip soon to see what they have.....maybe my car won't act up again!

Also, from what I read, my parameters should be ok. I think...lol. let me know if not!

Api freshwater master test liquid kit
Ph 8.2
GH and kh around 12-13.

Also, my tank temps are set to about 76F. Does this need to be lower for them? 74ish? Just wanted some clarification on that as well.

Thanks for any help! Don't know if I can even get any of these fish but worth asking anyway! And it's only if my gourami behaves in the 55....will try him out Tuesday or Wednesday I think! The glowlights, harlequin, and cories have settled in well! Also....just ordered more plants for it! Yay! I'm so addicted....heh.

 

[Byron]

I would not put a pair of any Apistogramma in a 20g high; a 30-inch (75 cm) length tank minimum, preferably a 36-inch (90 cm) length. I've had many species over the years, and they need room to be able to get out of each other's way. Remember that the male will consider the space "his," so the more there is, the better.

Temperature at 76F is better than cooler, though I acknowledge that some sources will suggest low 70's.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

I would not put a pair of any Apistogramma in a 20g high; a 30-inch (75 cm) length tank minimum, preferably a 36-inch (90 cm) length. I've had many species over the years, and they need room to be able to get out of each other's way. Remember that the male will consider the space "his," so the more there is, the better.

Temperature at 76F is better than cooler, though I acknowledge that some sources will suggest low 70's.

Yeah, a pair seemed like a bit much, which is why I went ahead and asked. Could I do one male with other fish or is it still too small for that too?

If a single male still wouldn't work, would a bolivian ram? I don't remember the parameters they do better with but I thought they needed a bit bigger than a 20 high as well.

 

[Colin_T]

Is it a community tank or were you just looking at keeping a pr?
I use to breed them in tanks that were 24inches long x 10 inches wide x 12 inches high. One pr of Apistogrammas per tank. They bred and reared up the fry for a month in that tank before the young were moved into a bigger rearing tank. At which time the parents usually bred again.

I'm going against Byron this time and saying a 2ft tank is fine for keeping a pr of them

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Is it a community tank or were you just looking at keeping a pr?
I use to breed them in tanks that were 24inches long x 10 inches wide x 12 inches high. One pr of Apistogrammas per tank. They bred and reared up the fry for a month in that tank before the young were moved into a bigger rearing tank. At which time the parents usually bred again.

I'm going against Byron this time and saying a 2ft tank is fine for keeping a pr of them

Well, I'm really not wanting to breed. But if that's how I had to buy them then it would just be the pair. I would rather just do a male in a community tank to be honest. Though I wouldn't know exactly what fish would be ok to go with it.

 

[Byron]

My previous opinion that a 20g high is not suitable is based on what the cichlid sources have advised, as well as my own experience not with this species but others smaller in size and the same size. I tend to listen to the experts, but just wanted to make clear this is not just my thinking which after all is only an opinion when science is not at issue.

The Bolivian Ram needs more space, definitely. At least a 30-inch, but here again I would not go under 36 inch length tank. My last Bolivian was in a five-foot tank, and he owned the tank. He also lived into his ninth year, which is pretty good for a fish with a normal lifespan of 4-5 years max. Also, the GH and pH is high for this species, which is likely to be wild caught.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

My previous opinion that a 20g high is not suitable is based on what the cichlid sources have advised, as well as my own experience not with this species but others smaller in size and the same size. I tend to listen to the experts, but just wanted to make clear this is not just my thinking which after all is only an opinion when science is not at issue.

The Bolivian Ram needs more space, definitely. At least a 30-inch, but here again I would not go under 36 inch length tank. My last Bolivian was in a five-foot tank, and he owned the tank. He also lived into his ninth year, which is pretty good for a fish with a normal lifespan of 4-5 years max. Also, the GH and pH is high for this species, which is likely to be wild caught.

Thanks Byron! I didn't think the bolivian ram would work but thought I would ask. Same goes with the appistos. I may just stick with black neon tetras then. Though I wouldn't mind khuli loaches if they are suitable? Could I have like, 10-15 black neons with 6 khulis? If I could even find the khulis. Petsmart has black ones but I'd rather have the normal ones. I'd almost do 15 or so regular neon tetras but I'm not sure how fragile they really are anymore and they may not tolerate my water as well.

 

[Byron]

Thanks Byron! I didn't think the bolivian ram would work but thought I would ask. Same goes with the appistos. I may just stick with black neon tetras then. Though I wouldn't mind khuli loaches if they are suitable? Could I have like, 10-15 black neons with 6 khulis? If I could even find the khulis. Petsmart has black ones but I'd rather have the normal ones. I'd almost do 15 or so regular neon tetras but I'm not sure how fragile they really are anymore and they may not tolerate my water as well.

I believe the GH and pH are high for kuhlii loaches.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

I believe the GH and pH are high for kuhlii loaches.

Yeah, I just did a bit more research. Saw that they may be more wild caught too. Dang well water! Oh well....lol. I just don't want more peppered cories. Maybe the petstore may have different ones that petsmart doesn't have...but...then again.
.all of this is wishful thinking depending on my blue gourami! Another couple of days and I will try him in the big tank!

 

[DrRob]

Things to consider.

If you have a pair, and keep them in good condition, then they'll either breed, or hate each other. If they hate each other, then 24 inches isn't long enough. They're low level fish and territorial, so the height isn't going to help you. You might get away with 24 inches, if they're well mannered fish. These are cichlids though, and they're generally totally crazy.

Re: khuli loaches, cool fish, love em, but I've struggled with some apistos and cories, mainly because they shared the same space. I'd not imagine the khulis faring any better. Mine have all been fine with upper water fish though, mainly been things like the smaller tetras for me though. Not sure if you were asking about the combo on reading back though.

If you want something cool, take a look at shellies, if you can find any. They'd do fine in your tank and will like your water, with some buffering.

 

[cowgirluntamed]

Things to consider.

If you have a pair, and keep them in good condition, then they'll either breed, or hate each other. If they hate each other, then 24 inches isn't long enough. They're low level fish and territorial, so the height isn't going to help you. You might get away with 24 inches, if they're well mannered fish. These are cichlids though, and they're generally totally crazy.

Re: khuli loaches, cool fish, love em, but I've struggled with some apistos and cories, mainly because they shared the same space. I'd not imagine the khulis faring any better. Mine have all been fine with upper water fish though, mainly been things like the smaller tetras for me though. Not sure if you were asking about the combo on reading back though.

If you want something cool, take a look at shellies, if you can find any. They'd do fine in your tank and will like your water, with some buffering.

No, I hadn't planned on mixing any low level fish with the appistos. But it seems appistos are out anyway, oh well.

As for shellies, I'm not really interested in them. I have a planted tank that's a work in progress and I don't really want to litter the bottom with shells. Plus, then I would need surface dwellers to go with them. Lol.. I'm not sure what you mean about buffering....my water has high kh so plenty of buffer. I didn't calculate it into ppm. That's just the number of drops I put in the tube before it changed color.