Api Quick Start / Fishless Cycle Test

[Yanks15]

OK, to start, I'm not a believer of "bacteria in a bottle" but I figured why not try it. Background on my new setup is....50gal(US) tank, Aragonite base, +/- 30lb Lace Rock, 2- Aqua Clear 50 HOB's, 200w heater, silk plants for decor. Planning for African Cichlids.

Water test prior to filling using air stone in 5gal(US) bucket for 1hr- used liquid test:
ph- 7.6+
KH- 6-7
GH- 8
and just because:
NO2- 0
NO3- 0

Filled tank w/ declor tap water. Brought water up to 84F degs. Let run 24hrs.

6/23- Start cycle- add ammonia to 4ppm- add 50ml Quick Start (dosing 10ml per 10 US gallons)
6/24- 24hr test NH3- 4ppm
6/25- 24hr test NH3- 4ppm- add 50ml Quick Start
6/26- 24hr test NH3- 3-4ppm
6/27- 15hr test NH3- 2ppm- add 50ml Quick Start
6/28- 15hr test NH3- 1+ppm- pH 7.6+. NO2 2-5ppm, NO3 5.0+ppm
6/29- 24hr test NH3- 0ppm- NO2 5ppm- NO3 5+ppm- NH3 dosed to 4ppm
6/29- 12hr test NH3- 1ppm- NO2 5ppm- NO3 5ppm
6/30- 12hr test NH3- 0ppm- NO2 2-5ppm- NO3 5ppm- NH3 dosed to 4ppm
6/30- 12hr test NH3- 0ppm- NO2 2-5ppm- NO3 5ppm
7/1- 12hr test NH3- 0ppm- NO2 2-5ppm- NO3 5ppm- NH3 dosed to 3ppm
7/1- 12hr test NH3- 0ppm- NO2 2-5ppm- NO3 5ppm
7/2- 12hr- NH3 dosed to 3ppm- NO2 2ppm- NO3 5ppm- 25% WC to take out & clean rock
7/2- 12hr test NH3- 0ppm- NO2 2-5ppm- NO3 5ppm
7/3- 12hr- NH3 dosed to 2-3ppm- NO2 2-5ppm- NO3 5ppm
7/3- 12hr test NH3- 0ppm- NO2 2ppm- NO3 5ppm
7/4- 24hr test NH3- 0ppm- NO2 2ppm- NO3 10ppm- NH3 dosed to 2ppm
7/5- 24hr test NH3- 0ppm- NO2 2ppm- NO3 80ppm (tested 2x)- NH3 dosed to 2ppm
7/6- 24hr test NH3- 0ppm- NO2 1ppm- NO3 80ppm- NH3 dosed to 2ppm
7/7- 24hr test NH3- 0ppm- NO2 .25ppm- NO3 80ppm- NH3 dosed to 2ppm
7/8- 24hr test NH3- 0ppm- NO2 0ppm- NO3 80ppm- NH3 dosed to 2ppm
7/9- 12hr test NH3- 0ppm- NO2 1ppm- NO3 80ppm (early)
7/9- 12hr test NH3- 0ppm- NO2 0ppm- NO3 80ppm
7/10- 12hr- NH3 dosed to 2ppm
7/10- 12hr test NH3- 0ppm- NO2 1ppm- NO3 80ppm
7/11- 12hr test NH3- 0ppm- NO2 0ppm- NO3 80ppm- NH3 dosed to 2ppm
7/11- 12hr test NH3- 0ppm- NO2 1ppm- NO3 80ppm
7/12- 12hr test NH3- 0ppm- NO2 0ppm- NO3 80ppm- NH3 dosed to 2ppm
7/12- 12hr test NH3- 0ppm- NO2 0ppm- NO3 80ppm- NH3 dosed to 1ppm
7/13- (2)50% WC- test NH3- 0ppm- NO2- 0ppm- NO3 10ppm- NH3 dosed 3ppm
7/14- 24hr test NH3- 0ppm- NO2 0ppm- NO3 40ppm
7/15- 75%WC- test NH3- 0ppm- NO2 0ppm- NO3 <5ppm- NH3 dosed 2ppm
7/16- 24hr test NH3- 0ppm- NO2 0ppm- NO3 10-20ppm
7/17- 50%WC- re-scape, no test, no dosing
7/18- 24hr test NH3- 0ppm- NO2 0ppm- NO3 10ppm- NH3 dosed 1ppm
7/19- 24hr test NH3- 0ppm- NO2 0ppm- NO3 10ppm- No dosing
7/20- 24hr test NH3- 0ppm- NO2 0ppm- NO3 10ppm- NH3 dosed 1ppm
7/21- 24hr test NH3- 0ppm- NO2 0ppm- NO3 20ppm- No dosing
7/22- 24hr test NH3- 0ppm- NO2 0ppm- NO3 20ppm- No dosing
7/23- No test
7/24- Dose NH3 to 1ppm- Replaced (1)carbon w/extra sponge
7/25- Full test NH3- 0ppm- NO2 0ppm- NO3 40ppm- pH 7.6- KH 6- GH 10
7/26- No test
7/27- Dose Nh3 to 1ppm
7/28- Test NH3 0ppm- NO2 0ppm- NO3 40ppm
7/29- Dose NH3 to 1ppm
7/30- Test NH3 0ppm- NO2 0ppm- NO3 40ppm
7/31- Test NH3 0ppm- NO2 0ppm- NO3 40ppm
8/1- 80% WC- test NH3 0ppm- NO2 0ppm- NO3 <5ppm Fish to arrive.. and DID!!!!

8/2-8/8- Testing 24hrs- NH3- 0ppm NO2- 0ppm NO3- 5ppm





Quick Start is a product from API that states..."Allows instant addition of fish...Immediately starts aquarium cycle" "contains live, nitrifying bacteria"

I've only known the possibility of a product like this working if it was refrigerated from time of packaging to time of dosing. And there was no guarantee.

Does their claim seem to be true?

And so you know, I'm a self-employed carpenter not a rep for this product if you thought I was trying to sell anything.

Just tired of misinformation on products.

 

[Bugdozer]

There are two or three products that actually have scientific documentation demonstrating they work. One is Tetra Safe Start. This uses Nitrospira bacteria. I'm not sure about the API product. There are some people on here who will tell you that all bacteria in a bottle varieties are useless and not worth bothering with. I'd ask them to provide proof to back that up. My view is that some are more effective than others, dependent on the type of bacteria contained within. Some might be useless. This article will be of interest to you: http/www.theaquariumwiki.com/Bacteria_bottles,_do_they_work%3F

 

[Yanks15]

Thanks for the article. Years ago I tried Bio Spira but not really sure if it worked. It was refrigerated at the shop but no way of knowing if it had been from production. I'll try to do some investigating of the API product to see if I can find what type of bacteria is in it. The bottle I purchased has an expiration date of 05/2014 so judging by the article, it must be in spore form. It does say to store in cool place and keep from freezing.

Do you think I should keep dosing every other day as I have or just see where it goes from here? I'm dosing on the premiss that even if there are some live bacteria in the bottle, I would have a better chance of it working by adding a bunch.

 

[Aqua Tom]

There are two or three products that actually have scientific documentation demonstrating they work. One is Tetra Safe Start. This uses Nitrospira bacteria. I'm not sure about the API product. There are some people on here who will tell you that all bacteria in a bottle varieties are useless and not worth bothering with. I'd ask them to provide proof to back that up. My view is that some are more effective than others, dependent on the type of bacteria contained within. Some might be useless. This article will be of interest to you: http/www.theaquariumwiki.com/Bacteria_bottles,_do_they_work%3F

Any new product needs to proove itself against its doubters, so far I have not seen any of these companies prooving beyond doubt that their product works.

It like anything in life, provide me with proof they DO work then I will use them. Dont leave it up to me to buy the stuff to prove it doesnt work.


Tom

 

[Yanks15]

Tom, I'm normally with you on that one. I found an API website that shows a test they did with 6 equal tanks (3 with their product, 3 without ). Their results supposedly showed that their product was proven safe for a small initial amount of fish and cycled faster than without. Believe it? So far I am seeing results that I don't think I would normally see if I didn't use it. Does that mean that the proper bacteria are being introduced and growing? I don't know how I would be able to determine that. I'm not exactly a chemist.

I believe that I will let the quantity that I have dosed already stand and see what happens from here. I will test every 12hrs and re-dose ammonia when 0 is reached, checking NO2 and N03. I will add to my timeline.

 

[Bugdozer]

There are two or three products that actually have scientific documentation demonstrating they work. One is Tetra Safe Start. This uses Nitrospira bacteria. I'm not sure about the API product. There are some people on here who will tell you that all bacteria in a bottle varieties are useless and not worth bothering with. I'd ask them to provide proof to back that up. My view is that some are more effective than others, dependent on the type of bacteria contained within. Some might be useless. This article will be of interest to you: http/www.theaquariumwiki.com/Bacteria_bottles,_do_they_work%3F

Any new product needs to proove itself against its doubters, so far I have not seen any of these companies prooving beyond doubt that their product works.

It like anything in life, provide me with proof they DO work then I will use them. Dont leave it up to me to buy the stuff to prove it doesnt work.


Tom

Then you have not read all the documentation available regarding some of the products mentioned in the article. My comment was directed at those who make claims like "all bacteria in a bottle products are useless", which I have seen stated by some on this forum. In order to make this claim with any degree of accuracy, you must have done the following:
1. Tried all bacteria in a bottle products available, under controlled conditions.
2. Tested them against an equivalent tank without any products added.

Whereas in order to claim a product works, with any degree of accuracy, the manufacturers need to do the following:
1. Tests only their own product against an equivalent tank without any products added.

So you see it's far more outrageous to make claims like "none of these products work" than it is for a manufacturer to say "our product does work (and here's documentation showing evidence)".

 

[Yanks15]

Bugdozer, that's kinda my quest. The only difference is that I am using it in a fishless cycle as to not harm any fish. If it proves to be effective, than I could see doing it again in the future. If not, at least I know. So far it appears to be doing something that might get me closer to cycled than without it. We shall see.

 

[Yanks15]

0ppm of NH3 in 6 days. Maybe this stuff can work.

 

[Yanks15]

Cycle test updated. Any comments on it's progression would be appreciated.

 

[Yanks15]

Cycle Test update. Looks like 4ppm NH3 dropping to 0 in 12hrs. NO2 unchanged but not crazy high. Anyone think I should do a small water change before next NH3 dose to get nitrites a little lower?

 

[Aqua Tom]

Cycle Test update. Looks like 4ppm NH3 dropping to 0 in 12hrs. NO2 unchanged but not crazy high. Anyone think I should do a small water change before next NH3 dose to get nitrites a little lower?

If its not off the scale then leave it.

 

[Yanks15]

Cycle Test update. Looks like 4ppm NH3 dropping to 0 in 12hrs. NO2 unchanged but not crazy high. Anyone think I should do a small water change before next NH3 dose to get nitrites a little lower?

If its not off the scale then leave it.

Not off the scale at all. Pretty steady @ 2-5ppm.

Making sure... I only dose up NH3 every 24hrs even when it's tested to hit 0 @ 12hrs? I believe that's what I have read here.

Thanks
Steve

 

[TwoTankAmin]

You need to be a microbiologist not a chemist to be a "pro" on bacteria.

You are banging your head against a brick wall trying to get the nay sayers to accept any research that the manufacturer might conduct as they will quickly tell you the research is not acceptable since it is performed by the maker. Moreover, they will not accept independent research if the funding for it was in any fashion connected to the manufacturer. Given the amount of time and money it would cost to conduct an independent study of just the leading bottled bacterial products, this will never ever be done. Just conducting independent research to identify exactly what is in each bottle would break the bank.

However, if one does enough independent investigating it is hard not to find decent evidence that some of the products do work. The problem is a lot of the research is only available to paid subscribers or to folks willing to pay $30 or $40 for the research paper.

There are two industries where bacteria in a bottle products are used regularly- aquaculture and larger public aquariums. These operations have enough vested interest to want to investigate these products and to determine whether to use them or not. They are also users of huge quantities of a bacterial starters at each go. It makes selling to them a much more viable business than tiny bottles going to fish keepers. So I would look to these industries for answers about what might work rather than to novice fish keeper reports and the urban myths found on most fish forums.

For my part I have only used DrTim's One and Only on two occasions in 2011 and both times it worked for me as expected. All of the rest of my fishless cycles have been done using seed material from my other tanks.

 

[Yanks15]

You need to be a microbiologist not a chemist to be a "pro" on bacteria.

You are banging your head against a brick wall trying to get the nay sayers to accept any research that the manufacturer might conduct as they will quickly tell you the research is not acceptable since it is performed by the maker. Moreover, they will not accept independent research if the funding for it was in any fashion connected to the manufacturer. Given the amount of time and money it would cost to conduct an independent study of just the leading bottled bacterial products, this will never ever be done. Just conducting independent research to identify exactly what is in each bottle would break the bank.

However, if one does enough independent investigating it is hard not to find decent evidence that some of the products do work. The problem is a lot of the research is only available to paid subscribers or to folks willing to pay $30 or $40 for the research paper.

There are two industries where bacteria in a bottle products are used regularly- aquaculture and larger public aquariums. These operations have enough vested interest to want to investigate these products and to determine whether to use them or not. They are also users of huge quantities of a bacterial starters at each go. It makes selling to them a much more viable business than tiny bottles going to fish keepers. So I would look to these industries for answers about what might work rather than to novice fish keeper reports and the urban myths found on most fish forums.

For my part I have only used DrTim's One and Only on two occasions in 2011 and both times it worked for me as expected. All of the rest of my fishless cycles have been done using seed material from my other tanks.
[/quot


Thanks for the info. If you could, please expand on your experience with Dr Tom's One and Only. What does "worked for me as expected" mean? Did it "work as advertised"? Did you see a convincing difference between using it as apposed to not? Looking at my log, does it appear to you that adding the so-called "bacteria in a bottle" is helping?

 

[Yanks15]

Log updated.