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KiLLeReDs

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does anyone have any experience with these fish my lfs needed to get rid of 2 so i got them for cheap i know sum of the basics like they get to like 10'' and all that but they r only like 4'' right now so they will be moved when it is time



p.s i didnt know were to put this :fun:
 
not sure but i dont think so i got some feeders and they dont seem to eat them like crazy they do like beef heart tho
 
these fish are piscavores. surface fish too

Added: hey i just read that thingy. someone posted a post about a profile. you should definatly get some archer fish. they are amazing fish seriously
 
That profile is incorrect, Xenentodon cancila is not a brackish fish and has no need for salt in its aquarium, a small ammount of salt will not harm them (up to SG 1.005) but keeping them with high end brackish fish such as shark cats is not recomended as the shark cats require higher levels of salt than the needle fish will be comfortable with in the long term.

http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=41749
 
I'll second what CFC says. These fish don't need salt, and are only rarely found in brackish water in the wild. Some aquarists have found adding a small amount of salt inhibits finrot and fungus, something that can set in if these fish damage themselves. A better bet is simply to make sure they don't damage themselves in the first place. Covering the aquarium, putting plants around the edges, and keeping aggressive fish out of the tank will all help. Most importantly, don't startle the fish (e.g. by suddenly switching on the lights in the middle of the night).

Needlefish are moderately difficult fish. In most regards they are scaled up halfbeaks -- intolerant of sudden changes in pH/hardness, prefer small live foods, jump out of tanks -- but they are also bigger fish and so have additional issues to deal with. They can't curl around corners like eels, so need a tank that is much wider than they are long. I'd certainly suggest a tank around 60 cm wide. Depth is largely irrelevant as these fish don't really leave the top few inches of the water.

There's some misunderstandings about feeding these fish. While they do eat small fish in captivity, in the wild they feed primarily on crustaceans (Fishbase: Observed to feed exclusively on crustaceans in the wild). Small crickets, mealworms, woodlice, river shrimp, and the like will all make useful staples. They can be weaned onto dead foods. The trick is to make the "prey" look alive by dropping it into a water current; the needlefish will strike at anything that flashes by them, and once grabbed, they'll eat it. If you do decide to go with feeder fish, it is best to breed your own livebearers, and then gut-load them before using them (see the pinned topic).

Cheers,

Neale
 
Like said, they are not a brackish fish. The only time salt is needed to is induce spawning moods.

Out of the family Belonidae, they are the only one that I know of that are truly freshwater. All species have been known to interchange waterways; going back and forth from brackish, freshwater, and saltwater. But Xenentodon cancila is the only one that stays in freshwater. Many people seem to confuse them with their silvery, saltwater cousins. Honestly, I really can't see why though. Cancila grow to about a fourth or third of the size compared to the others, rarely found in pure saltwater, primary color is a tannish body with a black lateral line compared to the primary silver color that dominates others, etc.

In the wild, they feed mainly on fish, insects, and small crustaceans like mentioned. Bugs that fall on the surface are a big part of a daily diet, with fish being maybe the second. In an aquarium setting, fish dominate over everything, as they're much easier to catch then in a large waterway. Please though, get them off of feeder fish. It's not that hard despite all the rumors going around, just don't be afraid to starve your fish for a week to two weeks. Depending on the individual fish, it could start eating in a few days. Just about everyone i've had has been switched over (have had like seven or something close) so that really says something. Let me tell you, they do so much better on freeze dried krill and market shrimp, you'll see the difference right away. While it should be a staple diet, you can offer a feeder fish or two now and then. If you just got them, plump them up with a few fish for a couple of days before you start weaning onto other foods. They're stressed enough as it is, and if they haven't eaten before you starve them, it could cause problems. If they've eater before and are starved for about two weeks (the longest you'll have to wait), then nothing bad should really happen.

As for tank size, length and width are important, al in all though..length is THE most important. Width should be about 12 inches for most individuals, but of course, the larger the better. In the end you'll need a 50-60 gallon. My almost fully grown needlenose is in a 65 and loving it.

Beefheart...only as a once weekly snack. Helps in growth but if it's a major diet item it will become deformed someway in the long run. Had to throw that in at the last minute...

I hope people will stop messing up info on these fish saying they're brackish,etc. These are one of my favorite fish, but sadly no one really knows much about them. I'm trying to get an article in Aquarium Fish Magazine..but I haven't gotten a response yet...sucks really. I've kept countless ones and currently did a little dissection thing on a small one that died a while ago, and I have a three year old or more dominate male needlenose. I guess you could call me a needlenose freak lol. Ever need anymore help feel free to post it!
 
flamingonhot -- An excellent post. Lots of good information there.

I'll add one comment though. There are multiple freshwater species, not just the one Asian species kept by aquarists. This from Fishbase:

Three genera are restricted to freshwaters of South America: Belonion (two species), Potamorrhaphis (three), and Pseudotylosurus (two). The most speciose genus, Strongylura, contains 14 species, mostly marine, some estuarine, and three strictly freshwater, two of which are found in Central and South America, S. fluviatilis from Ecuador and Colombia and S. hubbsi from Mexico and Guatemala.

Of the South American species, Potamorrhaphis is the only one I have heard of being kept in aquaria.

Cheers,

Neale

But Xenentodon cancila is the only one that stays in freshwater.
 
I once managed to obtain a trio of Potamorrhaphis guianensis which were being sold under the name of south american gar, unfortunately they proved to be extreemly difficult to keep and would start to die on me every time i fed the tank until i did a large water change, it seems they cannot tollerate even low levels of nitrate and after a few weeks they were too far gone to save despite my best efforts using R/O water and performing daily water changes, a shame really as they were far more striking then the more common Xenentodon species.


Oops, just realised i posted under the mrs name as she was the last one logged into the pc :lol: CFC
 
CFC -- this is interesting. While doing some halfbeak research, I got a very interesting e-mail from one of the Aqualog people who collects halfbeaks in Asia. He told me that the water Hemirhamphodon lives in has zero hardness and a pH of less than 5. Because of this, there is effectively no bacteria in the water. Once you take them to a regular aquarium at pH 7, they are bombarded with bacteria and get sick. The downside to keeping fish at pH 5 is (apparently) filter bacteria can't live there, either, so you have to use zeolite for filtration.

Anyway, I wonder if the issue with Potamorrhaphis is similar. Halfbeaks and needlefish are very closely related; baby needlefish go through a developmental stage called the halfbeak stage where the lower jaw is longer than the upper. The big question for people studing these two fish is figuring out whether halfbeaks are "scaled up" baby needlefish, or needlefish are specialised halfbeaks!

Cheers,

Neale

I once managed to obtain a trio of Potamorrhaphis guianensis which were being sold under the name of south american gar, unfortunately they proved to be extreemly difficult to keep and would start to die on me every time i fed the tank until i did a large water change, it seems they cannot tollerate even low levels of nitrate and after a few weeks they were too far gone to save despite my best efforts using R/O water and performing daily water changes, a shame really as they were far more striking then the more common Xenentodon species.
 
these fish are piscavores. surface fish too

Added: hey i just read that thingy. someone posted a post about a profile. you should definatly get some archer fish. they are amazing fish seriously


Just so you know, Archers are brackish fish and the silver needlefish in the topic title are not. So if you just "went out and got some" archers, they would die within hours.

Also, if you are looking to get into brackish, stay on top of your water changes. I lost three archers and a figure eight puffer due to a very rapid ammonia spike and filter malfunction.
 

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