Anyone want to study refugium plants with me?

[GuppyBreeder180604]

I mean if this was my project I would use a 20-gallon long tank for the plants apart from the sump and it would have a light to help the plants grow and I would use my plant mix (Salvinia natans, water lettuce, rotala rotundifolia, najas guadalupensis, Egeria densa, pearlweed, ludwigia repens, and green algae) as a way to have my jungle since I am a supporter of the diversity-stability hypothesis.

 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

As I find it safe to assume you have already read most everything under the sun with regards to this subject, may I ask why you did not consider water lettuce a runner up?

I know I did not bring it up because I am fairly new to the hobby, but it seems less menacing than Salvinia molesta and perhaps a likely candidate.

Back to my bedtime rotifers...

Rotifers and perovskites. What are you working on?!

You assume to much. I would say my dive into the literature has just begun. I'm guessing this is 200 citation project at a minimum, given the number of desperate fields that have explored aspects of this.

The short answer as to why I have not considered water lettuce is: it didn't show up in the research at my starting point. Not a scientifically valid reasons, but one that happens often nonetheless. I began by looking at effluent N sequestration for water treatment, and there water lettuce wasn't a focal species that I came across. Not sure why. But, this is a clear advantage to speaking with others. These are good questions to be asked! I probably should explore water lettuce to. It's been added to the list for my search.

In terms of Salvinia, there are a number of species. Certainly there is the most data on S. adnata syn. S. molesta. But S. minima and S. natans also have data available for them. Indeed, S. natans looks like a viable option and is much more available.

 

[eatyourpeas]

We are part of a pretty amazing universe, aren't we?

This was one of the articles I came across:

Performance of Pistia stratiotes, Salvinia molesta, and Eichhornia crassipes Aquatic Plants in the Tertiary Treatment of Domestic Wastewater with Varying Retention Times

Organic matter, nutrients, and chemicals are some of the waste materials found in most domestic wastewaters. The purpose of this research was to evaluate the potentials of Pistia stratiotes, Salvinia molesta, and Eichhornia crassipes aquatic weed plants in the tertiary treatment of secondary...

www.mdpi.com

What am I working on? Mmm, my list seems to expand uncontrollably and yet I am having a grand time connecting dots.

 

[Kyle E.]

Man 90 percent of this thread has gone over my head so forgive the novice question, but I thought duckweed was THE PLANT that grew like crazy? Wouldn't it be a good option?

 

[GuppyBreeder180604]

Man 90 percent of this thread has gone over my head so forgive the novice question, but I thought duckweed was THE PLANT that grew like crazy? Wouldn't it be a good option?

multiple plants grow like crazy and duckweed is one of them but its problem is that it is really hard to manage and it can die fairly easily thus producing detritus that in turn generate nutrients which is the opposite reason we want plants in the sump

 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

What am I working on? Mmm, my list seems to expand uncontrollably and yet I am having a grand time connecting dots.

Evasive, but I'm glad to hear you are having fun at whatever it is.

We are part of a pretty amazing universe, aren't we?

This was one of the articles I came across:

Performance of Pistia stratiotes, Salvinia molesta, and Eichhornia crassipes Aquatic Plants in the Tertiary Treatment of Domestic Wastewater with Varying Retention Times

Organic matter, nutrients, and chemicals are some of the waste materials found in most domestic wastewaters. The purpose of this research was to evaluate the potentials of Pistia stratiotes, Salvinia molesta, and Eichhornia crassipes aquatic weed plants in the tertiary treatment of secondary...

www.mdpi.com

Agreed.

That's a great article! It speaks to a couple things I've been finding. The first is that water lettuce doesn't seem to quite rise to the top (see what I did there?) of the list of best performers. The second one is that water hyacinth might out perform Salvinia. My concern is whether water hyacinth's improved performance outweighs the drawback of the larger sized plant (will need to remove the biomass to pull the N out of the system - and divisible units are much larger + you might imply need more space overall), and the greater likelihood of pest issues on the aerial portions. The numbers I've seen between Salvinia and Eichhornia are often so close. If they really are close, this might be a time to grow them together and see which performs better under the desired set of conditions. Not sure.

Man 90 percent of this thread has gone over my head so forgive the novice question, but I thought duckweed was THE PLANT that grew like crazy? Wouldn't it be a good option?

You are correct. Duckweed grows! However, in terms of its ability to reduce the nitrates, it seems to be outperformed by a number of types of plants. It does best at rather higher nutrient conditions apparently. This, and it's high palatability and protein content, has lead to its being researched for nutrient capture in ag systems where it can then be fed back to livestock or composted. Here is an announcement about recent work in that vein:

Researchers aim to 'upcycle' nutrient waste on farms using duckweed | Penn State University

I'm honestly quite glad it's not as useful under refugium conditions. I hate controlling the stuff in an aquarium. Pesky stuff in my mind. Gets everywhere. And part of my concerns here are with practical application.

 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

I've also been contemplating the utility of Nitella, but have much, much more reading to do.

 

[eatyourpeas]

Evasive, but I'm glad to hear you are having fun at whatever it is.

Not at all! It is complicated... that's all. I was born in the wrong century and should have been a monk in the middle ages. I have also intentionally disrespected your scientific nature and for that I apologize (no keyboard). I shall properly treat Genus and species from now on, even if it takes longer to get the text out.

I've also been contemplating the utility of Nitella, but have much, much more reading to do.

Ah, that will satisfy your "not above the water line" requirement. It will be happy with the mulm and muck on the bottom of the enclosure.

Cheers,
- Pisum sativum

 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

I shall properly treat Genus and species from now on, even if it takes longer to get the text out.

Yes, you are onto the meaning of my user name. I find that the aquarium hobby, more than any other group of hobbyists I know of who frequently make use of Latin binomials, have decided to capitalize both the genus and the species epithet. Not sure why.

And how can it possibly take you longer to omit the second capital letter?! Presumably that is one less key stroke as you do not need to hit the shift key. Now yes, if you were to italicize the text as is the accepted norm, then it would increase your effort. But in the case of simply not having the species epithet capitalized, you can be more correct and lazier. That's my kind of improvement!

 

[eatyourpeas]

Monks are so much more complicated... And yes, I was referring to italicizing the nomenclature. I have been spoiled by the Codex Amiatinus, my bad. I prefer not to capitalize the species, let's be proper.

 

[eatyourpeas]

So, how many chambers are you considering? I know it is probably premature to ask this question, but I am very interested in seeing how this project evolves. And, will you consider multiple specimens in dedicated chambers? I know you initially stated that you wanted to keep it to a single choice, but...

 

[eatyourpeas]

Also, which Nitella species are you looking into? And, should I arrange for a little scuba diver figurine to inhabit the refugium?

 

[OnlyGenusCaps]

So, how many chambers are you considering? I know it is probably premature to ask this question, but I am very interested in seeing how this project evolves. And, will you consider multiple specimens in dedicated chambers? I know you initially stated that you wanted to keep it to a single choice, but...

Sorry for the delayed response (as compared with recent correspondence). The semester has started and I have a class of 160 undergrads now. That's going to take some of my time, especially in the entirely online format.

I'm flattered to have someone who has taken an interest in my inane endeavor. Or perhaps it is quixotic. Anyhow, I have a very good idea of my sump design over all. I'll run from the weir down to the sump with a first stage of socks as my only mechanical filtration. From there the water will go through a MBBR of approximately 40% of the display tank volume. I don't think I need an SMBBR as I'm not sure I get any advantage from one given the low N concentrations in a typical aquarium. Some calculations may change that depending on my final literature review. I'd prefer to to have sequential tanks if not highly beneficial for practical reasons.

The onto the refugium tank. As I am going for chemical and operational efficiency, I do not plan to have any more than one tank for this purpose. If I can find a high efficient species I predict I shouldn't need one. I am sure there will be unanticipated hiccups where having multiple tanks would offer flexibility, but the added expense and failure points is the reason I am doing the research in the first place.

Also, which Nitella species are you looking into? And, should I arrange for a little scuba diver figurine to inhabit the refugium?

Of course, Nitella flexilis is the standard model organism. It's fairly easy to find. Easy to cultivate. Uses bicarbonate well. Plus it has a tolerance for low light that would make it useful below a floater layer. At this point it is just exploring the prospects. Not much more.

 

[eatyourpeas]

Ahh, but you do not need to apologize! Don Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra would be honored to have such a caballero in pursuit of this ideal. I am happy to be the Sancho Panza and tag along and learn as much as I can (or maybe I'll be Rocinante).

Before I saw your post I was looking into Anoxic Biocenosis, but your approach seems a lot cleaner and it is unencumbered by all the "hard layers" necessary to make AB work. That was what caught my attention.

Regarding SMBBR, I guess until you know you are going for a giant bioload, the Zeolite does not really have a role. But then again, what if you decide to go all out and have a giant tank? It'll be fun to see where this takes you. I suppose it has to do more with which and how many inhabitants you choose for the main tank. I need to do my homework on cichlids.

Would it be practical to consider baffles to rotate the Nitella flexilis as a way to not tire them out? Also, square baffles would allow for rotation to facilitate light exposure in a vertical configuration. Just a thought.

With 160 individuals, your hands are going to be quite full! We have also been drawn into the vortex of the new semester and are trying to get most pieces in place. Oddly, we got sidetracked by linguistics during our dinner conversation, so our list remains quite long. The remote learning has been a challenge for our kids, but they are making the best of the situation. A senior who will not experience commencement and a junior who is exploring interesting opportunities that could not be possible on campus life. Exciting times!

I shall add some specimen studying to my pile and be better prepared for the next step in this fun adventure!

 

[mbsqw1d]

I expect you could get good results from having the roots of Epipremnum aureum submerged, and then string the stem of the plant up outside the tank in good light. This means you wouldn't necessarily need to take up any space in the tank for plant mass, only the roots.