Anyone running a sump for their Freshwater?

[boshk]

Anyone running a sump for their freshwater planted tanks?
Would canister filters be more effective at removing debris/waste etc than a sump?

My tank is a Reefer tank with sump so I'm still on the fence about it.

I'm slowly buying all the aquascape stuff and this question has been on my mine since I took down my Reef tank.
I've asked a related question before, and consensus is 2 canisters left and right side IF I go the non-sump method, something like Oase Biomaster or Eheim 2217

 

[mcordelia]

I don't see any practical reason not to have a sump, other than it's potentially more maintenance. There are a lot of cool things you can do with a sump in freshwater too, for example planting plants like pothos in it (have to have a small light source) to grab excess nutrients out of the water. My view is if you already have the sump, and are experienced maintaining it, no point in buying more aquarium stuff since that will do just as well. If you think about it, a sump is really just an upgrade from a canister filter, and you can hide all sorts of things like heaters etc in there.

 

[mcordelia]

Whoops didn't see that you were going for a planted tank, probably ixnay on the pothos idea, but I saw somewhere that someone was doing a sort of refugium for freshwater where they were growing a bunch of algae which as a result was keeping their main tank free of algae. Again, don't know how that would play out with the planted aspect, but worst case you just run your sump like a canister filter and keep the heaters in there, giving you more options with your scape.

 

[663]

I had a sump years ago, for a marine tank. I haven't considered one for my current freshwater tank until now.

 

[Colin_T]

Many years ago there was a book called The Optimum Aquarium and it showed and described freshwater planted tanks using trickle filters. They are very good at filtering water and can be used on fresh or salt water aquariums. The only drawback to trickle filters on plant tanks is the filter is designed to maximise oxygen levels in the water. This can be counter productive to planted tanks with added carbon dioxide (CO2). That doesn't mean you can't do fresh water plant tanks with trickle filters. In fact most of the really nice plant tanks I have seen, have had trickle filters.

The advantage of trickle filters on plant tanks is you can have heaters, KH buffers and CO2 units under the tank (out of sight), and all supplements get added to the sump so there is less chance of the fish being poisoned.

 

[Jamesthecat]

I’m planning on a sump for my new 7ft in a few months, in my opinion it will allow me to get all of the equipment out of the tank, I’ll still be using external filters just propped up on some sort of from in one of the sump sections.

As the previous poster said if your experienced enough to know what to do with it and your happy with any extra maintenance it may incur then go for it.

In terms of the extra work my thinking is that I can do a lot of work now in the sump thus reducing any impact it has on the tank. Water changes can be ran from there and it just means I will save space would otherwise be taken up by large external filters.

Just having the heater and temp probes out of the tank would make it worthwhile for me

 

[itiwhetu]

The only time I see sumps as being useful is in breeding rooms, used them a lot with very large systems that were planted the water would then run through the fry tanks that were bare, we could then monitor the fry really well because they were in a controlled space but had a huge bio backup keeping the water fresh.

 

[boshk]

thanks for the replies.
Anyway, to save money (2 eheim/oase canisters) I decided to go ahead with the sump. Replaced the infamous Red sea valve so its silent now.

The issue/thought I have now is.......how do I do the filtration, the space is big with the water finding the path of least resistance and back up to display tank.

With eheim/oase canisters, it was pretty much set and easy, 100% of the water goes through........coarse foam--->medium foam--->eheim mech/matrix--->substrat pro---->fine pads--->back to tank

With my sump, there are 3 areas
1st Downflow: I'm trying foam/floss as the 1st contact in 2 cups.....Substrat pro under the foam/floss
2nd area: Have matrix/mech in a container, bag of substrat pro and Marinepure block
3rd area: Coarse foam before Return chamber

There is also a pump running the chiller, UV and carbon
suggestions?

 

[mcordelia]

I have no experience operating with a sump, so this response is purely based on what I have read about them, so may or may not work in practice.
To me, your plan sounds reasonable. Will you be setting up a foam prefilter at your intake? I would probably order my media in a way that mechanical is first to remove particulate, then biological to house the BB, then something to polish/carbon if need be. From what I understand, the benefits of a sump are that you have much more space for media, and as a result can have more media in total than your average canister, which results in having not only better filtration, but less likelihood of media failure (clogging, etc). I believe that a major downside to canister filters in general is that some models pass much of the water through the overflow/safety chamber at every pass, and as a result the actual amount of water that comes into contact with the media at each pass is only a fraction of the total water that passes through the filter. This would not be the case with the sump, since all water must flow through all compartments.

I think my biggest concerns with the sump would be packing it appropriately to avoid an overflow and to get the right flow rate through it since you are not in a pressurized system the way you are in a canister. I think you will probably have to experiment a little and keep an eye on it during the first year to get a feel for how it behaves in freshwater. It sounds like you have experience of this in saltwater already, so probably the only additional confounding factor would be plant detritus, if you choose to go for a planted tank.

Hopefully this at least gave you some things to think about while you wait for feedback from those with more experience with sumps.

 

[tracym73]

Hi @boshk
I have just got a second hand Red Sea Reefer 170 with a sump that I am planning on setting up as a freshwater tank. I have had freshwater tanks for years but never had a sump before, I set up a marine tank last year and decided a sump was a great thing and wanted to try a freshwater version as well.
I am just at the planning stage but I would love to hear how you are getting on and what you ultimately went for.
Cheers

 

[boshk]

Hi @boshk
I have just got a second hand Red Sea Reefer 700 with a sump that I am planning on setting up as a freshwater tank. I have had freshwater tanks for years but never had a sump before, I set up a marine tank last year and decided a sump was a great thing and wanted to try a freshwater version as well.
I am just at the planning stage but I would love to hear how you are getting on and what you ultimately went for.
Cheers

Hi, welcome to the club.
Its going as well as can be at the moment, some green hair algae etc etc
Setup: Reefer 525XL
Sump: All equipment used were leftover from reef tank days.
No mods to sump, instead of using 4 filter socks, I am using 4 cups, Eheim Substrat pro on the bottom of each which is always submerged, then fine foam, medium foam then coarse foam/floss on top
1 Return pump (Reef Octo Varios-6), always kept the Return pump as a standalone
1 Varios-4 pump running misc equipment like UV, Chiller, Carbon reactor and soon to be DIY Co2 Reactor.
I kept the black red sea coarse foam, placed a thin strip of white foam on top as the last polish before the return chamber.

The floss and thin white foam I bin every week, they get dirty pretty quick.

 

[clambert122]

I am also in the process of converting a second hand reef tank into a fresh water with a sump. This is also my first sump build in general, but I get the idea. So far, I cant think of any reason to not have a sump. Especially with a larger tank such as the one I am putting together. I think utility really depends on tank size to some extent.

I will let you know how it goes.

 

[ember04]

although i have never personal run fresh water sumps i have seen it done, you can convert the design of a salt water sump (something i have a bit more experiences in) to fresh water just remove the refugium

 

[Colin_T]

I am also in the process of converting a second hand reef tank into a fresh water with a sump. This is also my first sump build in general, but I get the idea. So far, I cant think of any reason to not have a sump. Especially with a larger tank such as the one I am putting together. I think utility really depends on tank size to some extent.

I will let you know how it goes.

The main drawback to sumps under aquariums is the pipe work going from the tank to the sump, and moisture building up under the tank if the sump is in a cabinet.

Moisture from the sump can be controlled by having coverglass on most of the sump, and leaving the cabinet doors open so air can get in. Alternatively have cabinet doors on the front and leave the back open so air can circulate under the tank.

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Trickle filters and sumps are ideal for cichlid tanks where the fish dig and re-arrange things.

Rift lake cichlids like lots of hiding places in the form of rocks and these rocks displace tank water. Having a sump can increase the water volume in this type of set up while allowing for lots of rocks in the tank.

You can also have lights above sumps on freshwater tanks and grow plants in the sumps. In the same way marine tanks have a refugium to grow macro algae. The plants help keep the water cleaner and you can keep shrimp or baby fish in them so they don't get eaten by the fish in the main tank.

 

[luke33]

I have ran sump's in marine tank's for the last 15yrs. They make more sense for marine but i do see them as being beneficial to fw as well. The advantages i see would be adding volume to your system, being able to breed food in(snails, shrimp if you have a predator tank of some sort), ability to hide equipment, and easy accessibility to equipment. Personally i would have it mechanical removal in the first compartment, then possibly a refuge in your second and/or media and return in the third. The other thing you'll need to do is have an ATO(auto top off) and reservoir, this way you can just let your tank go for days or weeks depending on how much you evaporate on a daily basis. I ran a 30g reservoir on my 180g and it would last a good week. FW i would assume your going to last quite a bit longer from less evaporation. On another note your getting into other issue's like noise and are you using U tube external overflows or is the tank drilled? If its drilled your good to go as you won't worry about an overflow, if its an external add on overflow they fail at times and you could flood your house. Also have to make sure your sump is large enough for a power outage, meaning if your power goes out can your sump hold the excess water that will drain into it from your tank.

I'm sure i'm missing alot of pro's/con's but a sump could be great!