Anyone ever use fresh water scuds for live fish food?

[jaylach]

From what I just read these things would be a great live food for my cichlids and rope fish. They are currently out of stock at my local source but only cost $10.00 USD for a decent starter culture when in stock.

If any know I guess my real question is if they breed fast enough for the population to survive and propagate in my tank or would they just all get eaten right away and be gone?

Another question is that if I needed to breed them in a separate tank what would be the minimum tank size?

 

[Uberhoust]

Don't know the answer but interested in the question.

 

[Lynnzer]

They're amphipods. Breed like crazy but eaten too fast to build a population in-tank. You'd need a separate breeding tank. They are - at least the marine version of them - are placed into the sump and refugium.
I'd say it would be easier to just put a tub of rainwater with some plants in it, into your back yard and try to breed them there. You'd also get daphnia and other critters appear there as well. Mosquito larvae for example.
I bought a couple of packets of daphnia and dumped them in my own tub and I used them over the course of a year. I did find a lot of other larvae in among dead leaves that had fallen into the tank.
I also had a couple of cultures of white-worm that were dead easy to get going and the fish loved them. They were so easy to breed that I was swamped with them and had to eventually throw a few containers of them away as I ran out of space to keep them.
Don't overlook the benefit of vinegar eels either. They are superb for the smaller rasboras and fry of all species. They too are so easy to keep.
If you look on youtube you'll see lots of tips on how to separate them from the vinegar solution but I found my own way to do this. I use a cafetiere. Basically just add the apple or even pear bits 'n pieces along with the apple vinegar to around 2 thirds the way up the cafetiere and place the strainer to a few mm's above that. Then just top it up with tapwater. It doesn't need to be treated. Just plain tap water. After a few days you'll begin to see the eels in the tapwater as they penetrate the filter to breathe at the surface. Then you just use a syringe to extract them. After that just top up with tapwater again.
They breed like crazy so be prepared to take some out and start another culture. I currently have half a dozen.

 

[jaylach]

Thank you. Would a 5 gallon tank normally suffice? Doing outside just isn't practical here.

 

[jaylach]

Hmmm, Just took a good look at my kitchen counter that is sort of a counter high divider. I could probably do a 10 gallon if a 5 gallon would not do. This is mostly in relation to the scuds.

 

[GaryE]

Scuds are a few different things. I suspect that in a very small set up, you could feed some of them. Here, they can be tiny little things, or larger Gammarus types. The name is used for both.

The wee ones would be wiped out in a day. And Gammarus grow slowly. I can catch both locally, easily, but haven't bothered because one's too small and the other slow to culture.

 

[jaylach]

Scuds are a few different things. I suspect that in a very small set up, you could feed some of them. Here, they can be tiny little things, or larger Gammarus types. The name is used for both.

The wee ones would be wiped out in a day. And Gammarus grow slowly. I can catch both locally, easily, but haven't bothered because one's too small and the other slow to culture.

Thank you!

The ones I'm looking at are the little ones. Since my cichlids only reach a mature size of less than 2 inches and my rope hunts a lot by swimming around with mouth open these fresh water scuds just look like a good sustainable food source say mayhaps once or twice a week. Also, since my tank is pretty heavily planted, ones that I add to the main tank MAY last longer as they would have a lot of hiding places. To be honest I have yet to research enough to really know anything for fact.

Here is a video from Dan's Fish (my best local supplier) on how he does these little beasties in a 20 gallon long. In the video Dan also brings up that they are good for cleaning plants.

Freshwater Scud Starter Culture (Amphipods)

Freshwater Scud Starter Culture (Amphipods) for sale from Dans Fish at $10.00 each. Shipped Next Day Air.

dansfish.com

 

[GaryE]

I've had the little ones show up on their own a few times, but the fish made very short work of them.

There is some lore about them picking off small fry. I've never seen that substantiated. and I am skeptical.

 

[Back in the fold]

If you are talking about Gammarus then these are a good live food. They grow to a fairly large size but you net the sizes you want to feed. They like vegetable / plant matter to eat with Java Moss being their favorite. Dans Fish sells starter cultures and he claims they eat algae off plants and then eat the plants. They are common to our neck of the woods and @jaylach I think you could find them in about any cold water small lake in the Bighorns. Check around Burgess Junction or Dayton.

 

[WhistlingBadger]

I've given my fish scuds I mail ordered, and slightly larger ones from a local, fish-free pond. Our bettas made short work of them. So yes, they are great fish food! I'm not sure about breeding them. Would be fun to try. Do keep us posted if you try it!

 

[jaylach]

Looks like I'll be doing scuds (the little ones) as soon as Dan's Fish has them again. Just got done with a few emails about it with Jonny, the guy that I deal with mostly there, asking a few questions. One of my concerns on doing this was tank size needed as I'm sort of limited on space. Jonny told me a 5 gallon would be totally fine for breeding the beasties. 5 gallons I can easily handle in the corner of my kitchen counter or, mayhaps, even on my bedroom dresser.

Other than food it seems that these little beasties are great for eating crud off of plants.

While I won't insist on it I do like under gravel filtration. I'll have to find out if there is any danger in them being sucked into the substrate but I doubt that.

I hope this all turns out as I'd like to quit using meal worms. I mean they are good food especially for my rope fish but it is a real pain getting the ones not eaten out of the plants. I mean I think my tank would be considered pretty heavily planted. I would like to go mainly with scuds rotated with red wigglers and mayhaps live Tubifex worms but I sort of worry about the Tubifex worms as I seen to recall reading that they are prone to carrying a bad bacteria.

 

[WhistlingBadger]

Looks like I'll be doing scuds (the little ones) as soon as Dan's Fish has them again. Just got done with a few emails about it with Jonny, the guy that I deal with mostly there, asking a few questions. One of my concerns on doing this was tank size needed as I'm sort of limited on space. Jonny told me a 5 gallon would be totally fine for breeding the beasties. 5 gallons I can easily handle in the corner of my kitchen counter or, mayhaps, even on my bedroom dresser.

Other than food it seems that these little beasties are great for eating crud off of plants.

While I won't insist on it I do like under gravel filtration. I'll have to find out if there is any danger in them being sucked into the substrate but I doubt that.

I hope this all turns out as I'd like to quit using meal worms. I mean they are good food especially for my rope fish but it is a real pain getting the ones not eaten out of the plants. I mean I think my tank would be considered pretty heavily planted. I would like to go mainly with scuds rotated with red wigglers and mayhaps live Tubifex worms but I sort of worry about the Tubifex worms as I seen to recall reading that they are prone to carrying a bad bacteria.

If you get into the business, I hope you'll ship to Lander! I could use some scuds myself. I want to stock the new tank with them and get a good population going before I add fish. I wonder how they do with current...

 

[jaylach]

If you get into the business, I hope you'll ship to Lander! I could use some scuds myself. I want to stock the new tank with them and get a good population going before I add fish. I wonder how they do with current...

I think there is a misunderstanding here. I'm not looking to breed scuds to sell. My intent would be free good live food for my fish. Still, if I end up with a large self sustaining population beyond that, we aren't all that far from each other and could possibly work something out. If I DO end up with a surplus population I could probably send you some as long as you paid shipping. The thing is that it seems that you need a separate small tank for the things. You have to be able to build a population in a safe environment. Still building a population in my 'real' tank is exactly my hope but my tank is so heavily planted they MAY be able to prosper. Still I will use the 5 gallon to make sure that I have a safe population.

LOL! I got a kick out of what Jonny said when I asked about a 5 gallon tank. He said that 5 gallons would be great, as long as there is water they will thrive.

 

[jaylach]

Oh, as far as current I don't think it is a big factor as long as not extreme as they tend to latch onto stuff especially food. Apparently they will eat just about any veggie table scraps but seem to especially like pumpkin. If you look at the video in my first post on this it seems that Dan cuts pumpkin in chunks when in season and just freezes.

 

[jaylach]

Yippee! Things get better and better. Just got a reply back from Jonny at Dan's Fish and he says that my preference for under gravel filtration would be ideal. The scuds will colonize the gravel and even under. The flow from the filtration will send them back to the main part of the tank by moving them back up through the air riser. LOL! since these little beasties are quite active they would probably even like the ride.

I guess when my social security and military pension gets here in early April I'll go out and grab a 5 gallon setup and do a fish-less cycle with the under gravel and some live plants. The plants will likely be Anubias attached to rocks and Water Sprite as floaters. Live plants are important but they will destroy some mosses.

As to the under gravel I'll probably use a Whisper 10 which would be rated for a 10 gallon tank but I tend to double the air flow for under gravel. For instance the under gravel for my 20 gallon cube, in theory, could be powered by a single Whisper 20 but I use two, one for each filter plate.

LOL! It takes me a while to decide exactly what I'm going to do but, once I do, I just do it. Of course then I'll be impatient waiting for the scuds. I may even end up looking for other sources but nobody would match the price since I don't have to pay shipping through Dan's.

Sigh, I'll end up doing this and then feel guilty for using them as food and they will become pets. Not really but I could just about see that happening as they are pretty cute little beasties and I DO like the color blue..