Any Guesses?

[lildavpot]

hi ive been having problems with unusual illnesses since i added new fish to my tank 5 months ago (pets at home) grr i lost a full tank of fry bar the 4 survivers, and 5 adults, i thought everything had sorted itself out, but recently lost another platy , she lost alot of weight until she was banana shaped and eventually died. ive origionally treated with methalane blue as i was told at my local shop it would kill all parasites, as we thought thats what was causng the problems....
my molly that seemed ok whilst all this was going on seemed to be having problems with what i first thought was fungus, so went into the hospital tank with the platy, and agian got treated with firstly melafix and when that didnt seem to work methalane blue nothing seems to work i also tried an anti bacterial med aswell in desperation, however the white bits seemed to have turned into little rings and it now looks like the scales are coming off. im also using aquarium salts... i have been trying to get photos but my camera and the fish wont co oprate. does anybody have any ideas from my bad description? all offers of advice will be welcomed as im all out of ideas...

 

[WILDER]

Bent spines and being skinny are fish tb, internal parasites, to old age.
Check the anus of the fish to see if its enlarged or red and inflamed.
Do your fish produce long stringy white poo, or clear mucas poo.
Any worms prutruding from the anus.
Internal parasites cause bacterial infections on top.

The fungus of the fish did it look fluffy in appearance and where was it on the fish.

 

[lildavpot]

Bent spines and being skinny are fish tb, internal parasites, to old age.
Check the anus of the fish to see if its enlarged or red and inflamed.
Do your fish produce long stringy white poo, or clear mucas poo.
Any worms prutruding from the anus.
Internal parasites cause bacterial infections on top.

The fungus of the fish did it look fluffy in appearance and where was it on the fish.

w put the weight loss down to internal parasites and the others seemed ok after treatment, i had been seeing long thin white worm like things swimming in the water which have appeared agian in ,my hospital tank, im just confused about this fish, it did look like fungus at first but then seemed to change into what looked like rings and it spread, but now the majority of the white has gone and it looked like her scales are coming off, i did at one point think it could have nbeen blisters of some sort but their not raw, she does look ill though and had a tiny bit of cloud eye, was kind of hoping the melafix might help with that coz im going to do more harm than good if i keep sticking different chemicals in the tank with her.

 

[WILDER]

Can we take a look at your water stats in ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and ph.
How many gallons is the tank.
How many fish and which type.

Did it look like the skin was peeling.
Any signs of flicking and rubbing.

Cloudy eye is a symtom of a desease not a desease in its own right.
Causes.
Bad water quality.
Irratation.
Poor diet.
Stress.
Old age.
Bacterial infection.
Parasites.

 

[lildavpot]

erm its a 20ltre tank only use for fry or isolating fish se did have a tank mate but it died, so only tank mates she has are the strange worm things and snails. not tested the water but can imagine the stats are all over the place as it wasnt cycled.. ill test them in a sec though have been doing 75% water changes every 5 days to try n keep it fairly good. and its heated and filtered but very basic. the water quality was pretty bad before the other fish died as i was feedingit 4 times a day in a desperate attempt to get some weight on it.

ok just tested it and .....
nitrate is 10ish
nitrite 0
ph 7.5
and im bad coz i dont have a thermometer on the tank ... but it felt a tad too warm so just turned it down a bit.... then agian my hands are freezing.

 

[WILDER]

The thing with internal parasites is that they cause bacterial infections, and do alot of damage to the insides of the fish.
I would check the water stats in the hospital tank.
The worms could be due to ammonia spike.
Take a look here.
http/www.aquarticles.com/articles/manage...aria_Worms.html

Columnaris will look fluffy in appearance it can go along the back and down the sides of a fish to form a saddle shape.
You can also get bleached out patches with columnaris.
Then there mouth fungus which is columnaris the mouth with look fluffy, or strands of cotton, to white bleached out lips, even rotting away the mouth, and face.
A severe case of columnaris can cause peeling skin and scaless falling off.

 

[WILDER]

Have any of your fish ever died to bent spines, being bloated, and popeye.
[URL="http/www.flippersandfins.net/flexibacter.htm"]http/www.flippersandfins.net/flexibacter.htm[/URL]

 

[lildavpot]

Have any of your fish ever died to bent spines, being bloated, and popeye.
<a href="http/www.flippersandfins.net/flexibacter.htm" target="_blank">http/www.flippersandfins.net/flexibacter.htm</a>

yeah when my fry were all dying a few kinda bent and had a few get popeye but i put the popeye down to poor water quality. but alot of them did bend round. the last platy to die just went very skinny. and the molly seems to have totally different symptoms, i was wondering, if it was bacterial, but now you mention the columnarius being round their backs and sides the patches did start around her back and have gone down her sides ill check out those links, its not on her fins or mouth though.. iv had that one too when i got my first tank. thought id had every illness in it i could get tbh

 

[WILDER]

They don't have to show all the columnaris systoms, there that many as columnaris comes in many disguises.
I will leave a link to fish tb just to rule it out.
You say the scales are falling off, being thin, bent spines, popeye,
JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THE FRY WASN'T BORN WITH A BENT SPINE.

Taken from the tb link.
Symptoms can include:

Loss of appetite
Progressive thinness
Sluggish movement
Folded fins
Eye protrusion
Dark coloration and granular appearance of the cornea (this is the first sign in Angelfish).
Skeletal deformity
Hanging at the surface
Skin defects, including blood spots and open wounds that may ulcerate
Black spots, or overall dark coloration (in Cichlids particularly).
Fin rot, characterised by the outer rays falling out.
Scales loosening and falling out
General swelling and scale protrusion (as in Dropsy)

 

[lildavpot]

They don't have to show all the columnaris systoms, there that many as columnaris comes in many disguises.
I will leave a link to fish tb just to rule it out.
You say the scales are falling off, being thin, bent spines, popeye,
JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THE FRY WASN'T BORN WITH A BENT SPINE.

Taken from the tb link.
Symptoms can include:

Loss of appetite
Progressive thinness
Sluggish movement
Folded fins
Eye protrusion
Dark coloration and granular appearance of the cornea (this is the first sign in Angelfish).
Skeletal deformity
Hanging at the surface
Skin defects, including blood spots and open wounds that may ulcerate
Black spots, or overall dark coloration (in Cichlids particularly).
Fin rot, characterised by the outer rays falling out.
Scales loosening and falling out
General swelling and scale protrusion (as in Dropsy)

just been looking at the first links you gave me and it doesn really look like the pics.. now also scared as i just read your last post. though the rest of the fish in my main tank seem healthy..... i had the fish store baffled when it first started .. well either that or they were just scared of the hysterical girl on the other side of the counter

 

[WILDER]

I would just keep an eye on the fish.
Its hard to say fish tb without any tests done on a dead fish.
Do you think that it could be fish tb.

 

[Colin_T]

I doubt it is TB but think it is more likely to be water quality.
The molly that developed the white film which turned into rings sounds like excess mucous brought about by too many chemicals or high ammonia levels.

Methylene blue can cause defects in fry or eggs if overdosed. It will also wipe out the filter bacteria and cause water quality problems.

You might be better off just doing a daily 50% water change using dechlorinated water that has a similar temperature and PH to the tank.
Get a thermometer to make sure the heater isn't cooking the fish.
Check the ammonia levels.
Only feed the fish once or twice a day and remove any uneaten food ASAP.

A phot would really help. Set the camera to macro and have the flash ON. Take a heap of shots and try to get one posted.

 

[lildavpot]

yeah its only the hospital tank that has no thermometer as its still glued to the one that broke.. my main tank is fully set up etc. was just a temporary measure to keep her away from the others. tested the stats yesterday and they were posted above. though i didnt test amonia... think this is something totally different to what i had before tbh as the others just lost weight. i didnt start treating the others until after about a month of random fish dying, as we were told at the lfs to try changing their diet first. the methalane blue on them was the last resort and by then i only had about 4 fry left of which 2 lived. ill try just making water changes as im still all out of ideas. i was using the close up mode on the camera but with no flash but ill try my srl later, was agian being lazy...

 

[Colin_T]

ammonia is more important than nitrite and nitrite is more important than nitrate. Any ammonia will cause problems to the fish, especially in alkaline water.

If the fish is still alive and still looking unwell try salt. Use 2 heaped tablespoons of rock salt or swimming pool salt per 20litres of tank water. Keep the salt levels high for at least 2 weeks and see how things go after that.
If you do water changes when there is salt in the tank make sure the new water has salt in it too.
A couple of weeks later if everything is good then do daily 10% water changes with fresh water to dilute the salt. A couple of weeks of daily water changes should get rid of the majority of salt and then you can start doing bigger water changes.

Salt will kill many external parasites and diseases and can make a difference when all else fails. Don't use the salt treatment on discus and corydoras catfish.

If fish are losing weight it is usually internal parasitic worms. However, as Wilder mentioned there are a number of other diseases that cause weight loss. But the most common is worms.

 

[lildavpot]

finally managed to get some half decent pics of her.. thought they dont really show much

the white bits look like the edges of her scales and her scales do seem to be raised slightly.... but i could be wrong.



do aquarium salts count as ive always used them? was told they help to regulate the ph? if so ill keep using them... didnt add any when i did a change today thought coz i didnt want to add aything other than dechloranator.. didnt do the testing as its a new set up , set it up as an emergency when i saw the fish were ill so just been doing the water changes, all the levels seem the same as my tap water. tryin gto stop it going into a cycle tbh, as that will finish her off.