Another List :)

[Ethos]

Ok, so here's another list that I've written down, that I'm sure I'll get losta feed back on

1. (3) Blue Green reef chromis
2. (3) Orcellaris Clownfish
3. (2) Auriga Butterfly fish
5. (1) Colored Seastar
So there you have it.
I'm sure theres too much of somthing, but I know these fish willl be peaceful together. I've actully done my home work on this list, so I know that their all easy care level, mostly Omnivore, and can be kept in a begginers aquariums.
Heres the 2 packages I can chose from for my coral
Begginer Coral Pack
lps begginer pack


Ps....What Leatherback would I get for my Clowns?

 

[Chac]

What size of tank will these be going in to

Del

 

[parker313]

On the coral packs, I'd go with the beginner coral pack first to make sure everything's going OK. The LPS pack, while a beginner pack, is still a group of corals that have more stringent requirements than the other beginner corals. Also, they have higher lighting needs.

For the clowns, a toadstool leather mushroom coral would be a good choice, but they still may not host in it. So, just get it if *you* like it

Even if the clown you get was hosting something in the lfs, that doesn't mean they'll take to anything in your aquarium (mine never has).

 

[Ethos]

What size of tank will these be going in to

75G is the least. I might be going larger.

 

[Chac]

Hi

If this is your 1st marine System I would advice the following

Add a good cleaner cre (Hermits, Turbos, Cerithr) maybe some Cleaner shrimp
Then add the Clowns

I would wait for 2 - 3 months before adding any corals, just to give your system time to settle down & to gather even more knowledge

Starfish must be acclimitised over a long period of time (IMO at least 12hours)

Del

 

[Ethos]

Well, I'm planning to add the Blue Green reef chromis first to cycle the tank, then after about a month, I'm either going to add the corals or the clowns......I think I'll add both at the same time.
The I'll add the butterflyfish, then the starfish.
But, what kind of stuff do I put in the tank for the reef chromis? Should it just be bare sand?

 

[Chac]

IMO cycling tanks with fish is a barbaric practise, that really shoulnt happen nowadays.

Are you not adding any Live Rock to your tank, if so I would get the RO water in & up to temp, them add the salt, then Live Rock, then Sand.
IMO Live Rock is the only succsefull way to run a tank, If you add L/R at the begginning of thw cycle & perhaps a frozon Supermarket bought prawn this will cycle the tank in the same way & time.

Also Chromis can become terrotorial if added 1st
I would defo not add the corals in the 1st month as this will most likely cause them stress.

Del

You should be adding about 0.5kg or Live Rock per gallon

 

[ess17]

I highly recommend cured live rock with the sand. I know this is pricey, but well worth it. If you get enough of it, your tank won't "cycle" and you won't need to hurt the green cromis by "cycling" with them. The recommended amount is a pound per gallon, but if you can't afford this, do as much as you possibly can before adding any fish. This will also serve as filtration. Then follow that live rock up with the cleanup crew mentioned by Chac, and only then consider adding your green chromis. Just my 2 cents though.

 

[Ethos]

So first add Sand
Then water and salt
Then live rock
then what?

 

[Chac]

I would do it in this process

RO Water Added to Clean tank (3/4 fill Tank, rest will be taken up by rock displacement)
Water Heated to 26c
Add salt to water (up to sg 1.026)
Add Live Sand (Give it a day or so to settle)
Add Power Heads, External Filter etc. & Switch on (In the external I would only have Activated Carbon & Antiphos Fe, No sponge or any other Biological Filtration - Clean out once every 2 weeks)
Add Cured Live Rock (Preferably total amount at once)
Add Frozon Shrimp
Switch on Skimmer
Begin testing in the 2nd week
remove Shrimp at end of 2nd week if any left
Test for the following Ammonia, Nitrates, Nitrites, pH, SG, Temp Keep an ongoing Record.
Leave to cycle for a 1 month or until most readings (Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrate) are 0

Del

 

[parker313]

If you add the full amount of live rock all at once and it is completely cured (as in you got it at the lfs where it was in a tank of water, came right home and put it in your tank) then your tank *should* be completely cycled right away since it's the bacteria and organisms in the live rock that make up the cycle.

So, while it is advisable to wait a week or two before adding fish, it's definitely not necessary to wait a whole month and if you do, then some of the bacteria on the LR can die off and you'll end up creating a mini-cycle when you do add the fish.

 

[parker313]

Here's a post Navarre posted for me in my nano-diary when I was first getting started about LR and cycling....

Hello and sorry for arriving late on this thread )

I would like ot add at this point (might be a bit late) that if you have added mature filters and especially a large quantity of good quality of live rock then your tank will not cycle.

You will do your tank more harm than good by waiting for the tank to cycle when it simply never will.

If you have good live rock onlready in the tank that has only been out of the lfs tanks for a few hours then you will still have the bacteria needed for the nitrogen cycle to work within your tank. If you have these bacteria and do not feed them (by feeding them i mean adding a fish or adding food/dead shrimps etc for feeding the bacteria) then the bacteria will slowly decline in numbers nad their efficiency in dealing with a future bioload is hampered.

I have added this extract from a fellow reefer before but i will add this again for your benefit.

Fully cured live rock should not cycle on introduction to a new salt water aquarium.

What Steve has said above is right - it really all comes down to the rock being fully cured on introduction. If it is, when it enters your tank, then there should be no problem.

I've noticed a lot of replies lately about fully cured live rock going through the 'recognized' cycling process. I really don't think that this is true. The reason I don't say that "it categorically isn't true" is because I'm waiting for an answer to a question from some microbiologists - hopefully within the next week (all established tanks cycle continuously but this is beyond test kit detection )

Fully cured live rock has nothing on it that will die back. With no die back, there can be no cycling of the rock - end of story.... - ish . There is the issue of 'osmotic shock' to address though. From what I believe, the Nitrosomanas sp. of bacteria found on/in live rock don't have a cell wall that allow the rapid transfer of water into/out of the cell (this is what I'm trying to establish). So, osmotic shock should not be a major factor.

That said, if anybody doesn't agree with me, then why do Steve, STM, Fantasea etc (all purveyors of quality fully cured live rock) say that their rock is ready to go? Provided that the rock arrives with you within 12-24 hrs then it should be fine. The only way this rock will 'cycle' is if some of it has died during shipping (unlikely, given the experience in packaging of the sellers) or if you kill some of it on receipt.

Provided that your salt water is set-up in accordance with your salt manufacturers’ recommendations, then there really shouldn't be a problem.

I've only set-up 6 reef tanks thus far (nothing, compared to others), all using fully cured live rock as the main filtration, and I've stocked each tank within 2 days of the rock going in . So far, I have suffered no fatalities as a result of this start up procedure (fatalities down the line are a different issue ). Now, I'm either the luckiest Taff reef keeper around or the suppliers of fully cured live rock are right .

Once I've received the answers to the questions I've asked, I'll write a diatribe on this subject . If I'm wrong, then I'll go gracefully


Cheers,

Jerry

 

[Chac]

Althought I completly agree with Parker & Navarre Post, I would never take my LFS's word that the rock is Completely cured and there will be die off, I would rather wait a couple of weeks - Months rather than risk any of my livestock.

And all the tanks I have set up I have added Cured Rock and I have in all instances gotten a Nit/Amm. Spike after a couple of weeks and then the reading dropped (ie CYCLE), why rush this and risk your future livestock when a bit of patience is all that is asked for.

Just my 2p worth, but it is how I do it.

 

[parker313]

Guess I'm just lucky to have an lfs that I trust B)

 

[Navarre]

Well there are a multitude of different ways to start a tank up. None of them are wrong and all have their risks.
Personally i wouldnt use the liverock from my lfs as it definately needs cycling when its been added.. the last amount of liverock took 2 weeks for me to cycle before it was ready
This shop is only a mere 10 miles from me. However, there are other shops.. 2 i can think of right now that i have got liverock from regualr, they are well over 300 miles away and it takes a courier to drop the rock off on "next day delivery". This liverock has been well treated and fully cured. never once has it ever given me a cycle nor readings of ammonia, nitrite nor nitrate.
With todays knowledge and shipping techniques i have no preoblem with purchasing from trusted shops and placing it right in my tank the moment it arrives at my house.

Whilst i agree that waiting for the tank to cycle when adding liverock is far less risky, there is also a risk of reducing the rocks ability to filtrate. Lets assume the rock does reach you in prestine conditions.. it doesnt need cycling and is ready and set to go. But instead of this you decide to wait and watch for a cycle... it never comes because the tank is already cycled. So whilst you watch and wait the bacteria slowly decline as they dwindle in numbers. when you finally decide to put the stock in the tank then the rock will have a smaller capacity to handle bioload (inititally)

Im sure we can argue for and against both strategies, both have their merits and both have their drawbacks. I guess there is no wrong way to do it and its really down to personal choice.