Angelfish shallow or deep water?

[Divinityinlove]

Hi, I just finally got a pair of angelfish I've wanted for years.

I put two in a 60 litre tank, 60cm wide, 30cm tall. However, saw a video stating that Angelfish like to swim vertically and prefer deeper tanks....?

I'm wondering if I should switch them with my betta male who is in a 90litre, 60cm by 40cm and give them a bit more vertical room? Currently they'd have 30litres each but as they grow the deeper tank would offer them 45litres each.

I know it's still not ideal as the same video recommended 20gallons per fish and to be kept in groups of 5. This mighr become an option in future as I might trade up my 4 tanks for one large one for a good deal, but for now, I'd like your opinions on shallow vs deep water for angelfish?

The 60cm x30cm with 2 young angelfish and 3 nerites only.

The 90litre with 1 betta male and 2 nerites.

Not much difference but 10cm depth could help them a bit if it's really important for their happiness.

 

[Wills]

Neither tank is suitable - you need to be getting them a big 4 foot tank, minimum a 4 x 18 x 18 but a 4x2x2 would be best - if you can entertain a 5 or 6 foot tank even better.

They are really big fish as adults because they are taller than they are long. The prospect of keeping them in a 60 litre tank must surely been pretty obvious as a bad idea right?

Wills

 

[Ichthys]

At the very least 18” water depth, preferably more. The domestic varieties don’t grow nearly as big as they used to, but they can still get to 6-7” tall.

 

[ghyti]

At the very least 18” water depth, preferably more. The domestic varieties don’t grow nearly as big as they used to, but they can still get to 6-7” tall.

Hi, I just finally got a pair of angelfish I've wanted for years.

I put two in a 60 litre tank, 60cm wide, 30cm tall. However, saw a video stating that Angelfish like to swim vertically and prefer deeper tanks....?

I'm wondering if I should switch them with my betta male who is in a 90litre, 60cm by 40cm and give them a bit more vertical room? Currently they'd have 30litres each but as they grow the deeper tank would offer them 45litres each.

I know it's still not ideal as the same video recommended 20gallons per fish and to be kept in groups of 5. This mighr become an option in future as I might trade up my 4 tanks for one large one for a good deal, but for now, I'd like your opinions on shallow vs deep water for angelfish?

The 60cm x30cm with 2 young angelfish and 3 nerites only.
View attachment 321997

The 90litre with 1 betta male and 2 nerites.
View attachment 321999
Not much difference but 10cm depth could help them a bit if it's really important for their happiness.

The 60 liter (15 gal.) is a little small for a pair of Angels long term. The 90 liter (23 gal.) would be much better . That would be OK for a pair of Angels. Of course bigger is always better.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Depending on the species you need more or less depth in general. But adult angels are tall fish and their ventrral fins can be on the long side. When I kept double dark blacks which spawned they were in a well planted community 45 gal. tank. which is a 36inch (91 cm) long, 12in. (30cm) wide and 23in. (58 cm) deep. I started with 6 juvies, lost one and when I got a pair I let the the other 3 go,

When I switched to keeping my dream angels which are Altums, I now have 4 adults in a 55 gal. which is really on the small side for them, but they are the lone occupants of the tank which is 48in. (122cm) long, 12in. (30cm) wide and 21in. (53cm) deep.

The Altums were supposed to end up in my 150 gal. which is a 72in. (183cm) long x 18in. (46cm) wide x 28in. (71cm) deep. Altums git pretty tall and their ventrals are longer than what we tend to see on domestic strains.

We tend to forget that how deep a tank is is usually though of as being filled with water. But when the time comes to do a 50% (or more) water change this cuts the depth by about 1/2. Even your 40 cm deep tank will only be 20 cm when the water change is happening.

I do not know the standard tank sizes in the UK, but I would consider something like my 45 gal OK for a pair of angels with not too many other fish. If yours pair and go into spawning mode, they will get very nasty in dealing with the other tank inhabitants.

Get a bigger tank, please if possible as your angeks do ne more space and depth than you have in the two tanks you mentioned. Keeping fish in tanks which are too small for them is stressful. Stress is one of the major cuases of fish getting sick as it will erode their ability to fight off things. Stress compromises their immune systems because it trigger bio-chemical changes inside the fish.

 

[Byron]

Agree with other members here, and will note something else. Are you certain you have a "pair," meaning a male and female that have accepted each other and bonded?

 

[anewbie]

Fyi: while individual fishes differ in size; as a general rule males are much larger than female so when people talk about size and their experiences they really should mention the sex of the fish. I have mine in a 120 (gallon) and my general experience mirror what others have said - you can keep them in an 18 inch tall aquarium but 24 inch is better - though a pia for use with short arms.

 

[Divinityinlove]

I suppose I'll have to rehome them as they grow a bit then. I consulted the person at the pet shop who sold them to me and because so many people keep them in community tanks not that large I overlooked the necessity of doing more research on their size and tank size. I checked online and a source said they need 40litres each whilst the shop person told me they'd be fine with 20litres each.... Idk why they have such standards as they also sold me goldfish staying on the labels they need 60l each rather than stating that they grow to a foot and need a pond... I guess they'll stay with me whilst young and I will search for another home for them...

I seem to be struggling to find fish that suit the criteria of good size, pretty looking, community suitable... I'll post separately for some suggestions as when I do get a bigger tank I was not intending it to be much deeper than 40cm and if the angelfish grow to as large as mentioned, I'd rather they have a tank that is always bigger than the minimal space and I don't think 18" would be quite big enough for their comfort as adults.

 

[anewbie]

there is a species called Pterophyllum leopoldi which only grows to around 6 inch tall. They look like small angelfishes; do not come in the fancy colours of domestic angelfishes and pretty much require soft acidic water. If your water is suitable for them then you could consider several of them.

 

[Divinityinlove]

there is a species called Pterophyllum leopoldi which only grows to around 6 inch tall. They look like small angelfishes; do not come in the fancy colours of domestic angelfishes and pretty much require soft acidic water. If your water is suitable for them then you could consider several of them.

Isn't that what I have now? That's the size other members suggest is too large for my tanks... 6" tall.

 

[anewbie]

No - they are a little smaller - also we run into games of min/max size as there is a large variance between the sex and individual fishes. For example In general i think a 40B is tall enough for females angelfishes in the general case but not males - but you can't sex young angelfishes which makes the information weak. When people talk about sizes they take great liberty without drilling down to the nitty gritty detail. The one you have might fit if it turns out to be a female or runt or small male but if it is a decent size male then he won't.

To be honest there are some indications it might be a runt or poor genetics but only time will tell.

 

[Byron]

The photo is the common angelfish species, Pterophyllum scalare. This species has been developed into many varieties, black, lace, gold, etc, etc...but all are the one species.

There are two other species of angelfish, Pterophyllum altum and P. leopoldi. But they are much rarer in stores and and have not, so far as I am aware, been developed into varieties.

In 1979, Warren Burgess considered P. scalare and P. altum to be variants of the same species, and for a time in the literature they were subspecies known as P. scalare scalare and P. scalare altum respectively, with the "second" distinct species P. leopoldi. In 1986, Sven Kullander determined there are three valid and distinct species, P. scalare, P. altum and P. leopoldi. In 1998, Kullander erected the subfamily Cichlasomatinae for several cichlid genera including Pterophyllum.

We previously asked about the GH of your water, this has not yet been answered, and it might have an effect here. You are in London, which I assume is UK, and I believe your water is quite hard.

 

[Ichthys]

The old domestic varieties, like yours, are hybrids between P. scalare and P. leopoldi. They don’t grow as big these days as they used to. Some stay small, some get a bit bigger. You won’t know till it grows.

40cms is 16”, which would be less after substrate, and an inch or two from the top?

 

[GaryE]

Everyone wants to help, and you can see a few differing opinions.

Angels grow large, although not like the wilds I've raised. Those ^%^%$ tanks we have won't grow, no matter how many fish we feed them. Your conclusion to try something else is a good one. If you have 2 males in even a 1.3 metre tank, it will get ugly. They can get nasty, in spite of their gentle looks.

I wish I could help with choices, but it's a big planet and the choices in stores can really vary.

BTW, the last time I saw real leopoldi, they cost a fortune.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

I have only every wanted to keep two angels. The first were double dark blacks a tank created hybrid. Some lines were hardy but most were somewhat flakey. The best lines looked like black velvet. I was lucky to get mine from a decent breeder.

The second species yook me over 10 years in the hobby before I tried for the first time with Altums. At that time very few folks in the world were breeding altums successfully. Int eh wild they live in vert soft water with a pH in the 4.0 range. The ones I have now I took in partial trade for some of my plecos. They were bred in Las Vegas by a person I knew through the wild angel site/forum (now mostly gone). I have 4 large ones I am selling in Sept. That person consulted me on breeding zebra plecos. In my wildest dreams I could never manage to spawn Altums. Watch the two vids below in order. And it is best to do so on Youtube in full screen.

edited to fix typos