Angelfish losing vision to bacterial infections?

[BOBJOESIM]

Hello all, I have a single angelfish and a rhino pleco in a 30 gallon freshwater aquarium that has been cycled for months already. Recently my pleco seemed to have hurt himself on decorations and seems to be really irritated by it (even trying to jump out of the tank), and disturbed a ton of substrate in the tank. That day I noticed a bit of what seemed to be a cloudiness on my angelfish's right eye and didn't think much about it as he's had periods where he had it for a day or two and it went away. A day or two later my pleco had kept trying to jump out of the tank and disturbed a ton of the substrate that released a lot of waste into the water. I went to sleep that night and the day later I did a water change as a precaution as my angelfish's cloudiness wasn't getting better. Another day later his eye seemed to have deflated with a hole (still looks like his pupil) where his pupil should be (maybe it still is his pupil? but he doesn't seem to react to things I put in the tank near him around that eye. I did another 20% or so water change a day later after noticing cloudiness starting to form on his left eye. I tested the water after that 2nd water change in three days and it shows 0 - 0.25ppm Ammonia (it's weird because ammonia that I test from my water sources also seems to have that amount, it's never a flat 0.00ppm) and 0.00ppm nitrites (attached is a picture of those results, I should mention these test kits are around 3-4 years old so im not sure if they're still good?) I've tried a chopstick test to see if he reacts and it has to be really close for him to move away with his right eye, he still seems to respond to it from a bit of distance on his left, but again I am worried he will lose vision in that eye too. Is there anything I should do besides testing water and doing water changes? I don't really have any medicine and I'm not sure where to start with diagnosing what is causing it I will say it seems my pleco seems to want to jump out of the tank less now so at least he won't disturb the substrate as much...

I attached the latest water test results (today), how it seems his right eye is deflated relative to his left (does that mean he can't see anymore out of it?) his right eye, and my pleco's injury (his fins are also damage but that only seemed to start happening after he began trying to jump out of the tank )

 

[Colin_T]

If the fish is trying to get out and they have eye problems, there is something wrong with the tank water.

Wipe the inside of the glass down with a clean fish sponge.

Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for 2 weeks. The water changes and gravel cleaning will reduce the number of disease organisms in the water and provide a cleaner environment for the fish to recover in.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

Clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. However, if the filter is less than 6 weeks old, do not clean it. Wash the filter materials/ media in a bucket of tank water and re-use them. Tip the bucket of dirty water on the garden/ lawn. Cleaning the filter means less gunk and cleaner water with fewer pathogens.

Increase surface turbulence/ aeration when using salt or medications because they reduce the dissolved oxygen in the water.

If there is no improvement in the eye after 2 water changes, add some salt. See directions below for salt.

-------------------
SALT
You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt), sea salt or swimming pool salt to the aquarium at the dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres of water. If there is no improvement after 48 hours you can double that dose rate so there is 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

If you only have livebearers (guppies, platies, swordtails, mollies), goldfish or rainbowfish in the tank you can double that dose rate, so you would add 2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres and if there is no improvement after 48 hours, then increase it so there is a total of 4 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

Keep the salt level like this for at least 2 weeks but no longer than 4 weeks otherwise kidney damage can occur. Kidney damage is more likely to occur in fish from soft water (tetras, Corydoras, angelfish, Bettas & gouramis, loaches) that are exposed to high levels of salt for an extended period of time, and is not an issue with livebearers, rainbowfish or other salt tolerant species.

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria but the higher dose rate (4 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will affect some plants and some snails. The lower dose rate (1-2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will not affect fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.

When you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.

 

[BOBJOESIM]

If the fish is trying to get out and they have eye problems, there is something wrong with the tank water.

Wipe the inside of the glass down with a clean fish sponge.

Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for 2 weeks. The water changes and gravel cleaning will reduce the number of disease organisms in the water and provide a cleaner environment for the fish to recover in.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

Clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. However, if the filter is less than 6 weeks old, do not clean it. Wash the filter materials/ media in a bucket of tank water and re-use them. Tip the bucket of dirty water on the garden/ lawn. Cleaning the filter means less gunk and cleaner water with fewer pathogens.

Increase surface turbulence/ aeration when using salt or medications because they reduce the dissolved oxygen in the water.

If there is no improvement in the eye after 2 water changes, add some salt. See directions below for salt.

-------------------
SALT
You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt), sea salt or swimming pool salt to the aquarium at the dose rate of 1 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres of water. If there is no improvement after 48 hours you can double that dose rate so there is 2 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

If you only have livebearers (guppies, platies, swordtails, mollies), goldfish or rainbowfish in the tank you can double that dose rate, so you would add 2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres and if there is no improvement after 48 hours, then increase it so there is a total of 4 heaped tablespoons of salt per 20 litres.

Keep the salt level like this for at least 2 weeks but no longer than 4 weeks otherwise kidney damage can occur. Kidney damage is more likely to occur in fish from soft water (tetras, Corydoras, angelfish, Bettas & gouramis, loaches) that are exposed to high levels of salt for an extended period of time, and is not an issue with livebearers, rainbowfish or other salt tolerant species.

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria but the higher dose rate (4 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will affect some plants and some snails. The lower dose rate (1-2 heaped tablespoons per 20 litres) will not affect fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.

When you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.

I've done the water changes, added some melafix yesterday and have seen not much improvement so I think I am going to add salt today...though it seems like both of his eyes are flattened already I wasn't able to clean out the filter (I had done so a month and a half ago actually due to a previous problem) because of construction/moving out issues. Would you happen to know how to tell if a fish is blind vs just lethargic, or if he could recover maybe? As I said both of his eye "bubbles" seem to be gone and they're just flat to his body, it seems strange though I'm not sure if that's causing blindness

 

[Uberhoust]

I have read this post a couple of times and there is a couple of things that don't seem normal.
1. Elevated Ammonia suggests that the cycle has somehow been lost. How do you clean the filter and what is in the filter.
2. Elevated Ammonia in the tap water. Not a chemist but I wonder if your tap water is treated with Chloramine rather than gaseous chlorine, you cannot age chloramine out of the water like you can chlorine. How are you treating the water going into the tank.
3. Fish trying to get out of the tank, sounds like they are suffering from irritation from something in the water. Ammonia could be the cause but also so could Chloramine.

The next time you do a test do the pH (the higher the pH the higher the toxicity of the Ammonia), and Nitrate (both on the tap water and the tank water). If you are getting nitrates forming that at least a portion of the cycle is working. With only those two fish in a 30 gallon tank you should be ok in regards to water quality in a cycled tank.

The possible issues that I see are:
1. Insufficiently treated tap water. (find out if chloroamine is added to the water, treat the water going into the tank based on the chloramine instructions)
2. Loss of cycle, possibly from the first item, but could also be from other aspects of the fish keeping. (Clean filter with aquarium water only, do not add additional material that removes ammonia as it might be starving the ammonia eating bacteria)
3. Something chemically irritating added to the tank, decoration, rock,... something that is leaching toxins. (have you added any new decorations)

Good luck with your fish. I believe you will have issues getting them to heal if the water quality, Ammonia or whatever is causing them grief, doesn't get improved.

 

[Colin_T]

Would you happen to know how to tell if a fish is blind vs just lethargic, or if he could recover maybe? As I said both of his eye "bubbles" seem to be gone and they're just flat to his body, it seems strange though I'm not sure if that's causing blindness

current pictures so we can see the fish and its eyes?

 

[BOBJOESIM]

I have read this post a couple of times and there is a couple of things that don't seem normal.
1. Elevated Ammonia suggests that the cycle has somehow been lost. How do you clean the filter and what is in the filter.
2. Elevated Ammonia in the tap water. Not a chemist but I wonder if your tap water is treated with Chloramine rather than gaseous chlorine, you cannot age chloramine out of the water like you can chlorine. How are you treating the water going into the tank.
3. Fish trying to get out of the tank, sounds like they are suffering from irritation from something in the water. Ammonia could be the cause but also so could Chloramine.

The next time you do a test do the pH (the higher the pH the higher the toxicity of the Ammonia), and Nitrate (both on the tap water and the tank water). If you are getting nitrates forming that at least a portion of the cycle is working. With only those two fish in a 30 gallon tank you should be ok in regards to water quality in a cycled tank.

The possible issues that I see are:
1. Insufficiently treated tap water. (find out if chloroamine is added to the water, treat the water going into the tank based on the chloramine instructions)
2. Loss of cycle, possibly from the first item, but could also be from other aspects of the fish keeping. (Clean filter with aquarium water only, do not add additional material that removes ammonia as it might be starving the ammonia eating bacteria)
3. Something chemically irritating added to the tank, decoration, rock,... something that is leaching toxins. (have you added any new decorations)

Good luck with your fish. I believe you will have issues getting them to heal if the water quality, Ammonia or whatever is causing them grief, doesn't get improved.

For number 1, the way I usually clean my filter is to go through a bit of tap water mixed with water conditioner (API water conditioner) and a few gallons of tank water (the latter usually isn't enough because I use a canister filter rated for a 60 gal tank and I don't want to completely empty my tank of water, basically i have a strainer that I put all the bits and pieces inside the canister (cylinders and spheres where I assume the bacteria grows) and pour the tank/tap water mix through it to dislodge all the plant matter gunk my pleco ends up pushing into the filter. For number 2, I put the tap water into a bucket and pour some conditioner in there to leave it out for a day (or two if I forget/don't have time) before doing a water change and adding it to the tank...the thing is with the test results I've never ever gotten a flat yellow that would indicate precisely 0.00ppm, though there are occasions where in the past I would test crappy tank water and it would clearly be elevated to a 1 or 2 so I assume the kit works(ed?). It's been like this for the last 5 years ever since I've been doing water changes and testing it in this specific tap (I should say this is NYC tap water so...maybe that's why?). And regarding number 3, my pleco started jumping out of the tank (and my angelfish started having the eye infection/cloudiness) before I did the first water change this week

 

[BOBJOESIM]

current pictures so we can see the fish and its eyes?

The second picture is a head-on view, it seems like both of his eye globes are deflated

 

[Uberhoust]

If I was in your position I would start looking at the long term water quality issue. It is not good to have elevated Ammonia in the tank. In my tanks if the API test has the slightest hint of green in the ammonia test I know there is an issue. The angel looks like he will loose one of the eyes, but at this time all one can do for that is make sure its environment is healthy. @Colin_T 's advice is likely the best for the palliative care for your fish.

I would start with examining the maintenance cycle you follow. Below is what I use, it isn't necessarily the best and yours might differ, but, comparison to what you do might point out a potential source of the underlying issue. My maintenance cycle is once a week with the details below, much of it is based on what I have recently learned on this site, even though I have kept fish for many years.

Input Water:
Note there is quite a difference between the water treatment where you are and where I am.

NYC Water - Partially treated for particulates, Chlorinated, UV treated with additions of Phosphoric Acid, Sodium Hydroxide, and Fluoride.
https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/dep/dow...2020-drinking-water-supply-quality-report.pdf.

My water- fully treated for particulates, Membrane ultra filtered (at the source), Chlorinated, Partially UV treated.

I suspect your water starts with a higher pH, which may or may not drop. Mine starts between 6.5 and 7.0 pH and can drop pretty fast if I am not careful.

Water Changes:

• I change 40 to 50% of the water weekly. (Based on earlier comments from this forum - this has been my biggest change since joining the forum, if you water heater is near the surface you may have to lower it or turn it off temporarily, I melted some brackets with my heater when I started doing big changes))
• Water treatment added to the tank of remaining water before filling. If I am filling a 75 gallon tank I use the amount of water treatment for 75 gallons (I actually use a bit less because I know I am quite a ways down the line from the Cl injection system).
• Fill the tank with water directly from the tap mixing it with the hot. I try to get it within 1 degree of the tank temp but don't always manage that so I fill the tanks slowly to allow adjustment time)
• FYI Water changes cost me $22 dollars per year at the current price of 1.00/m3, ie 4500 US Gallons a year. (175 gallons of aquariums). Its not a big cost.
• Note on water treatments - The amount recommended by the manufacturer is likely based on the most chlorine one can normally expect from city water, so you shouldn't exceed the recommended concentration. If you fill the tank directly, IE not bucketing, dose for the final amount of water in the tank, if you fill the tank from buckets dose the buckets based on the amount of water in the bucket, before you add the water to the tank.

Cleaning:

1. Vacuum the surface of the sand once a week as part of the water change process.
2. Rinse the biomedia and the sponges in discarded aquarium water.
3. Clean the glass once a week just before I drain the tank for the water change. (might as well remove some of that biomass from the tank)
4. Trim the plants when the water is low.

Filter Setup:

I use Aquaclear HOB filters. I only use two layers starting with the foam block to trap particulates and substrate for nitrifying bacteria. Foam is followed by an assortment of ceramic bio media to fully . These have only been rinsed in over two years on my main tanks. I do not use charcoal, or resins, with the exception I have used API Ammo sorb when I had a temporary overstocking situation when moving one of my larger tanks.

Other notes:

I try to keep stocking relatively low.

Good luck with your fish.

 

[BOBJOESIM]

Update: I've been doing 30% water changes every two days, and adding aquarium salt, melafix, and methlyne blue (paraguard from seachem) after each one, and I just noticed this weird bubble thing above what I think is my pleco's...breeding tube or something? It definitely wasn't there yesterday...anyone have any idea what it might be?