Angel Sick? Updated

[CubanCorona]

Although my angel appears to be acting normally, the tips of her find have turned milky white. I'm also noticing that the fins are looking a bit shorter and less robust.

Any ideas?

 

[Tolak]

If you can, please fill out this info, it gives us more to go on;

Tank size:
pH:
ammonia:
nitrite:
nitrate:
kH:
gH:
tank temp:

Fish Symptoms (include full description including lesion, color, location, fish behavior):

Volume and Frequency of water changes:

Chemical Additives or Media in your tank:

Tank inhabitants:

Recent additions to your tank (living or decoration):

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Off the top of my head; nipping by other fish that is getting a touch of fungus, or water quality issues. Many of my breeders have this, breeding angels tend to get a little rowdy with each other. Plenty of water changes helps to keep this under control.

 

[CubanCorona]

Sorry, of course.

90 gallons
pH 6.5
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: ~0
will test nitrate, but probably ~30
85 degrees F


Eheim Wet/Dry
Eheim Carbon Canister

Water changes once a month or more, about 40%

3 Discus, 3 fire eels, 2 angels, 2 synodontis angelicus, 2 clown loaches

Absolutely no chemical additives. ONLY salt and proper pH after each water change. I'm pretty sure the water quality is well above average.

No recent additions to the tank.

All fish are OK, except the one angel who is acting normally but has milky white fin tips. Pictures:

Thanks for the help!

 

[WILDER]

Will need a bacterial med for bacterial finrot.
Good luck.

 

[Tolak]

The cause could be some nipping fom the discus if they are getting at the age where they would start showing pairing activity. Discus, while usually peaceful, will show typical cichlid behavior when maturing and pairing. Ends of a veil angel's fins are an easy target.

Try either a divider to seperate the angel from the discus, or a seperate tank for the angel. Frequent water changes with a bit of melafix should help. Angel fins will show some whiteness after being nipped, this is normal, and neither fungal nor bacterial.

 

[CubanCorona]

So, I was checking on everyone this morning and I noticed two abnormalities:

The discus were being abnormally aggressive towards each other (mostly body poking).

I also noticed a very very small white spot on the dorsal fin of one discus. Looks like the start of a fungus maybe.

I shut off the carbon filter and am treating with rid ich.

 

[Tolak]

What you are seeing is not fungus, it's the result of aggression. Scrapes & tears will show some whiteness, some colors show this more readily than others. Rid Ick will not eliminate this, reducing or eliminating aggression will. If the discus are being aggressive towards each other, they are probably giving the angel some grief.

Pairing and breeding fish are often slightly torn up, they are different from show fish. Keeping up on water quality will prevent any infection from setting in.

Black angels are the worst I've seen for showing any marking. A little chase & sideswipe some driftwood, and they show horrible looking white scrapes. This heals in a day or two with good water quality. Medications do nothing for this, as it is a situation that doesn't require medication. By medicating in a situation that doesn't require meds you risk creating resistant strains. If you need those meds to work in the future, they won't work as well, if at all.

 

[CubanCorona]

Thanks Tolak.

The discus with the small white patch is the largest of the bunch, and I've never seen anyone pick on him. The white spot also has a very small, thin strand swinging off of it.

Despite this, do you still think it's only from aggression?

Here's the thing that really irked me: The 3 discus always had a clear pecking order, but the 2 at the bottom have now switched places. The one who used to be in the middle now lets the bottom one pick on him.

 

[Tolak]

Small strands like that are common with injuries to fins. I've had angels with 1/2 to 2/3 of the fins shredded off due to being stuck between a couple of fish pairing. Daily 50% water changes for a week or two, along with a little melafix is all that was used, and they grow back faster than you would think.

 

[CubanCorona]

Gotcha, thanks again. I've stopped treatment and resumed carbon filtering.

The discus are about 5 months old now, is it possible that they are trying to mate/pair off? Could that be causing their aggression?

If so, will it subside, or do I need to separate them?

 

[Tolak]

That's a little young for mating & pairing, but they are old enough for figuring out a pecking order. You may eventually get a pair, and will have to rehome the odd fish out.

All cichlids are individuals as far as temperment is concerned. Sometimes you can have a small group that gets along reasonably well, or even a couple of pairs that are compatable in a larger tank. Other times you will get the individual that doesn't get along with any of it's species, or fish that look like its species.