Amonia/ possible tank failure solved for now

[Lilacsky_]

Hi fellow fish people! So I am on vacation right now and my dad stayed back to care for my fish. I have a load of tanks so as soon as I knew there was a problem I moved the sick fish over to my empty tank. In a period of 8 hours I’ve lost 3 of my cichlids all of which were in a mature tank (4-5 months with pre cycled media). The cichlids that were still alive are now in a 10 g tank until I get back home. How should I go about fixing he ammonia issue when I get back? I’ve owned fish for 8 years now and have never run into this much of an issue. I had my dad do a 50% water change last night; however, that didn’t make anything better. I know he has been feeding them a normal amount because he Skypes me every time he feeds them. There is also just normal gravel in the bottom of the tank. Thank you so much for your help. I will be home in two days and I really want to get the fish back into their big tank so they can be happy again. If you have any tips for keeping ammonia down in general please let me know.
Stocking:
1 EB Acara
2 Astatotilapia burtoni (pair)
1 convict

 

[Byron]

Difficult to advise, not knowing all of the issue. I think we will need to know a lot more data. Tank size, water change schedule, water values regularly. How do you know this was ammonia?

 

[Lilacsky_]

Hi Byron, tank size is 50 gallons, water changes are every other week, and about every month I test water quality (more if I’m having issues). I was calling my dad this morning and I had him test the water for everything I had in my test strips and the only area that was dangerous was ammonia. There is a cascade canister filter that I don’t know too much about because I got it used, but if there is any other info you need let me know! Thank you

 

[Byron]

Hi Byron, tank size is 50 gallons, water changes are every other week, and about every month I test water quality (more if I’m having issues). I was calling my dad this morning and I had him test the water for everything I had in my test strips and the only area that was dangerous was ammonia. There is a cascade canister filter that I don’t know too much about because I got it used, but if there is any other info you need let me know! Thank you

I'm still not grasping exactly what occurred. Presumably when you left on vacation, all was good (test results OK?). The three fish that died were in their normal tank where they've been for several months? Or did the three fish die after being moved to smaller tanks? How did you know there was a "problem," and what was the problem? How high or "dangerous" is ammonia, we need to know the number.

Very generally, whenever fish begin dying like this a major water change is helpful. Sometimes this alone solves the problem, depending of course on what it is. Moving the fish to smaller tanks will mean cycling issues in those tanks, unless they are well established with live plants.

I will say though that this tank is normally not getting anywhere near sufficient water changes. Every week, and 50-60% of the tank volume once per week, is the minimum with these fish. [I will assume there are no live plants, they would help you with all this.] But water changes are still essential.


There is also an issue with the stocking, as these cichlids have differing water parameters and a level of aggressiveness that is not going to keep them calm. That likely contributed something.

Byron.

 

[Lilacsky_]

I'm still not grasping exactly what occurred. Presumably when you left on vacation, all was good (test results OK?). The three fish that died were in their normal tank where they've been for several months? Or did the three fish die after being moved to smaller tanks? How did you know there was a "problem," and what was the problem? How high or "dangerous" is ammonia, we need to know the number.

Very generally, whenever fish begin dying like this a major water change is helpful. Sometimes this alone solves the problem, depending of course on what it is. Moving the fish to smaller tanks will mean cycling issues in those tanks, unless they are well established with live plants.

I will say though that this tank is normally not getting anywhere near sufficient water changes. Every week, and 50-60% of the tank volume once per week, is the minimum with these fish. [I will assume there are no live plants, they would help you with all this.] But water changes are still essential.


There is also an issue with the stocking, as these cichlids have differing water parameters and a level of aggressiveness that is not going to keep them calm. That likely contributed something.

Byron.

I apologize for not giving sufficient information. I left for vacation 2 weeks ago and water perameters were all totally fine. All of the fish were living together with no problems for a few months with absolutely no issues. Last night at about 9:00 Denver time the tank got really cloudy (pictures below). I had my dad immediately do a 75% water change. He claimed that the fish were hanging up at the top, and one was struggling. This morning 2:00 Denver time I got an urgent call from my dad saying that two of my fish had died and another was not doing well at all. Then I had him test the water and he read them off to me the ammonia number is 2.0. It was at that moment I told him to move the fish so that we could save as many as possible. They are doing better, but I need to fix the issue as soon as I get back.

 

[Lilacsky_]

Also I had live plants in the tank before, but the cichlids tore them up.

 

[Byron]

I apologize for not giving sufficient information. I left for vacation 2 weeks ago and water perameters were all totally fine. All of the fish were living together with no problems for a few months with absolutely no issues. Last night at about 9:00 Denver time the tank got really cloudy (pictures below). I had my dad immediately do a 75% water change. He claimed that the fish were hanging up at the top, and one was struggling. This morning 2:00 Denver time I got an urgent call from my dad saying that two of my fish had died and another was not doing well at all. Then I had him test the water and he read them off to me the ammonia number is 2.0. It was at that moment I told him to move the fish so that we could save as many as possible. They are doing better, but I need to fix the issue as soon as I get back.

It take a lot of question/answer to sort out sudden problems.

The cloudiness was likely a bacterial bloom, which can be harmless (an increase of organics causes a sudden multiplying of the various bacteria that consume organics and this latter causes the cloudiness). These bacteria are different from the nitrifying species. The causes of the increase in organics are several, from overfeeding to inadequate water changes/filter cleaning, inappropriate fish stocking, a breakdown of the filter, increase of light... etc.

Were the fish in distress (hanging at the top) prior to the water change, or resulting from the WC? If prior to the WC, it may be difficult to find the cause aside from the above. But if the latter, post-WC, was sufficient conditioner used? Tests of the tap water alone for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH help as any of these suddenly arising/changing could cause issues. It would also help to know the tank water pH before and after; I mention this because if for some reason the pH became acidic, an increase of ammonia could build up with the cloudiness and be harmless (in acidic water, ammonia changes to ammonium which is basically harmless to fish) but a water change using basic pH (above 7) water would suddenly raise the pH above 7 and the ammonium would immediately change to ammonia, very toxic. [My mention of more frequent water changes previously is one good way to avoid this.]

The ammonia at 2 is very dangerous, and as this was after a 75% water change, it could either be the above situation, or coming in with the tap water, or again due to the filter/substrate.

If the separation of the fish has helped them, I doubt much morte can be done until you return to look into all this more thoroughly. Tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH are important, both for tank and tap water.

 

[Lilacsky_]

It take a lot of question/answer to sort out sudden problems.

The cloudiness was likely a bacterial bloom, which can be harmless (an increase of organics causes a sudden multiplying of the various bacteria that consume organics and this latter causes the cloudiness). These bacteria are different from the nitrifying species. The causes of the increase in organics are several, from overfeeding to inadequate water changes/filter cleaning, inappropriate fish stocking, a breakdown of the filter, increase of light... etc.

Were the fish in distress (hanging at the top) prior to the water change, or resulting from the WC? If prior to the WC, it may be difficult to find the cause aside from the above. But if the latter, post-WC, was sufficient conditioner used? Tests of the tap water alone for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH help as any of these suddenly arising/changing could cause issues. It would also help to know the tank water pH before and after; I mention this because if for some reason the pH became acidic, an increase of ammonia could build up with the cloudiness and be harmless (in acidic water, ammonia changes to ammonium which is basically harmless to fish) but a water change using basic pH (above 7) water would suddenly raise the pH above 7 and the ammonium would immediately change to ammonia, very toxic. [My mention of more frequent water changes previously is one good way to avoid this.]

The ammonia at 2 is very dangerous, and as this was after a 75% water change, it could either be the above situation, or coming in with the tap water, or again due to the filter/substrate.

If the separation of the fish has helped them, I doubt much morte can be done until you return to look into all this more thoroughly. Tests for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH are important, both for tank and tap water.

Okay thank you so much for all your help. I’m not sure what the ph exact number was before the water change, and that picture was taken before my dad changed the water so they were up at the top then. If ammonia is coming out of my tap what should I do?

 

[Byron]

Okay thank you so much for all your help. I’m not sure what the ph exact number was before the water change, and that picture was taken before my dad changed the water so they were up at the top then. If ammonia is coming out of my tap what should I do?

That is less likely if this started before the WC, but still something to test when you are home. Tap water can change over time, due to all sorts of things we have no control over. If ammonia occurs in the tap water, there are conditioners that detoxify it (by changing it to ammonium) though this is usually temporary (24-36 hours), but by then the bacteria and especially live plants (floating are excellent for this) can easily deal with it. It is the sudden influx at the WC that has to be dealt with. But I would say this seems unlikely here. Still, test tap water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH when you're back.

The question is still, what caused this? I've mentioned overfeeding, the fish themselves (what may have seemed "OK" may not be OK, and the fact remains that these cichlid species should absolutely not be housed together, so that is something to look into later, depending which survive. I am not saying keeping fish "A" with "B" is going to suddenly cause what occurred, certainly not; but the stress the fish are under permanently weakens them and this makes it much more difficult for them to cope with other issues in the future. Everything is cumulative.

 

[Crystal90]

I agree with everything Byron has stated. The only other advice I would give is to invest in an API master test kit. Test strips aren't reliable.

 

[Lilacsky_]

I agree with everything Byron has stated. The only other advice I would give is to invest in an API master test kit. Test strips aren't reliable.

Okay thank you both so much I will buy one of those when I get back home. I really appreciate the advice!!

 

[Lilacsky_]

That is less likely if this started before the WC, but still something to test when you are home. Tap water can change over time, due to all sorts of things we have no control over. If ammonia occurs in the tap water, there are conditioners that detoxify it (by changing it to ammonium) though this is usually temporary (24-36 hours), but by then the bacteria and especially live plants (floating are excellent for this) can easily deal with it. It is the sudden influx at the WC that has to be dealt with. But I would say this seems unlikely here. Still, test tap water for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and pH when you're back.

The question is still, what caused this? I've mentioned overfeeding, the fish themselves (what may have seemed "OK" may not be OK, and the fact remains that these cichlid species should absolutely not be housed together, so that is something to look into later, depending which survive. I am not saying keeping fish "A" with "B" is going to suddenly cause what occurred, certainly not; but the stress the fish are under permanently weakens them and this makes it much more difficult for them to cope with other issues in the future. Everything is cumulative.

Thank you Byron! I had my dad test the tap water today because he stayed home from work. Everything came out in what he said was the ideal range. I will for sure research my fish more, but they are still all doing well in the smaller tank I have them in. Thanks again for all of your help. I also will be doing daily water changes until it clears before I put the fish back in, and then weekly once everything is established.

 

[Byron]

Thank you Byron! I had my dad test the tap water today because he stayed home from work. Everything came out in what he said was the ideal range. I will for sure research my fish more, but they are still all doing well in the smaller tank I have them in. Thanks again for all of your help. I also will be doing daily water changes until it clears before I put the fish back in, and then weekly once everything is established.

The API liquid test kit(s) would be a good investment. "Ideal range" is subjective, because what I might consider "ideal" is not always what someone else considers ideal. Stores that do tests sometimes do this, saying it is "good" but without the actual number this is somewhat meaningless.