Ammonia spike after fertilising

[Lcc86]

Hi all

I usually add a cap of liquid fertiliser in my tank with each water change. I have added root tabs every so often when I first set the tank up but hadn't done so for several months.

Earlier this week I added a few during a water change as I put some new bulbs in. I tested the water the next day and there was an ammonia spike in both my tanks (less so in the 6gal as I only added one but still above 0).

The tabs I've been putting in are unbranded but look like this - https/www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334391427841?itmmeta=01J4VHAXCDQCNQAGYP0KH5D7RB&hash=item4ddb484301:g:80EAAOSwpZ5iSwLu&itmprp=enc:AQAJAAAA4GnEQT2sQC+8Z6MZjcXgZqQEeWZJRhHMGXbyGvrNOtNRrrCvVdIhtpL7vtQFFJm5Bsq3kX2l/7Tth8T3BoltwziMGEHyQlEs5mQS+DO7xT4Tj7wpHc/0bSZlyB++lhr+LD/UBU0rQ9lG7OCsc6Q6jq67ACkjnnRgG/YDmc3bOXIl+6F0XlB605wZc8eiUWwkGDfhoTdqbUve4OgTUIVtwtLkhkfjr8T8sc/9MRWBh0RGvWMdZ/ftl8cqI9WhEQ3Ei67qCdnlA6u4STbwtFSKp30GHk7H9Nx3PA5QgF/EJ8lW|tkp:BFBMotar8aZk. I've used them before with no issues.

I did a 50% water change straight away and tried to remove as much of the tabs as possible. Left it 24 hours, tested again but still have ammonia, so have done another 50% water change. Have tested again this morning and still have ammonia. Have included pics below.

Is there anything else I can do to try and help? I'm using remineralised RO water so I know there's no ammonia in my source water. Short of digging up my substrate to get out any remaining bits of root tab I'm a bit stuck! I've got some seachem prime I could put in but know that's only a temp fix.

**first pic with lower ammonia reading is my 6gal where I just put 1 tab in, 2nd pic with higher reading is my 30gal where I put 3 or 4 tabs in.

 

[Essjay]

We've had members in the past who have had problems when using similar looking root tabs. I think it was @AdoraBelle Dearheart who had a nitrite spike.


I would stay with a reputable brand known not to cause ammonia/nitrite spikes such as Seachem Flourish root tabs and TNC Plugs.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

What the plants mostly want in terms of Nitrogen is ammonium. This an ion of ammonia which, when dissolved in water, most of it turns to ammonium which is way less toxic than ammonia. But some of the ammonia will stay ammonia unless the pH is acid (under 7.0). By the time the water is a pH of 6.0 ammonia levels are so low they cannot be detected by our test kits. But ammonium can persist. Most tanks in the hobby have a pH that is well above 6.0.

Since is would not be a good idea to add ammonia or ammonium to a tank with fish and/or inverts, most plant ferts use something else to provide usable Nitrogen to the plants. The two most common things for this are Nitrate (NO3) or Urea (NH2CONH2).

However, for the real plant nerds, adding ammonia and/or ammonium at very low levels is a practice some do use. But such folks have the experience and knowledge to do so and not harm the fish. They are also willing to dose frest at least dailym usually just before the lights come on. Some of them may add ferts multiple times/day.

But for the rest of us, keeping live plants should be a bit simpler. For the last 20+ years I have used Tropica liquid fertilizers and Jobe's Fertilizer Spikes For Lush Ferns & Palms. The one thing I do is I avoid digging up the Jobe's Spikes which are a time release fertilizer. Get it into the water and you will learn the meaning of being overwhelmed by algae.

The Spikes have Total Nitrogen at 16% of which 2% is Nitrate Nitrogen, 10.5% is Water Insoluble Nitrogen and 3.5% is Urea Nitrogen.
What us not in this fertilizer is ammonia/ammonium at any significant level. The comprehensive Tropica fertilizer I use contains 1.3% Notrogen supplied by nitrate and ammonium. It does not indicate how much of each contributes to that 1/3%. But my bet is the ammoint of ammonium is not enough to be a danger to fish in any way.

According to the linl to the ferts you use, they contain 17% Nitrogen. They do not say how, but that is somewhat high and is likely the source of your readings. Depending how deep your substrate is and then how deep you push the fertilizr "ball," it may be leeching something back in to the water. If you are disturbing the substrate to plant, repalnt or vacuum this can also release things back into the water.

SeaChem Flourish is mostly a micronutrent/trace supplier.

Flourish​

• Comprehensive supplement for the planted aquarium
• Provides micro elements, trace elements and other nutrients
• Does not contain significant levels of nitrogen or phosphorus

Here is the ingredient list. There is almost no Nitrogen in it and the Phosphate and Potash are also minimal.

Amounts per 1 g
Total Nitrogen (N)	0.07%
Available Phosphate (P2O5)	0.01%
Soluble Potash (K2O)	0.37%
Calcium (Ca)	0.14%
Magnesium (Mg)	0.11%
Sulfur (S)	0.2773%
Boron (B)	0.009%
Chlorine (Cl)	1.15%
Cobalt (Co)	0.0004%
Copper (Cu)	0.0001%
Iron (Fe)	0.32%
Manganese (Mn)	0.0118%
Molybdenum (Mo)	0.0009%
Sodium (Na)	0.13%
Zinc (Zn)	0.0007%

The advise dosing theirs individual N P K ferts if one needs these.

The TNC Plugs:

TNC Complete is an aquatic plant food specially formulated for use in all planted aquariums. For aquariums where the fish load is not meeting the requirements to supply the necessary Nitrate and Phosphate - TNC Complete is ideal for making up this shortfall.

TNC Complete contains a balanced blend of Nitrogen, Phosphorous and Potassium as well as Magnesium and all the important trace elements.

Analysis
1.5-0.5-6
1.5% N, 0.2% P, 5% K, 0.8% Mg, 0.08% Fe, 0.018% Mn, 0.002% Cu, 0.01% B, 0.01% Zn, 0.001% Mo, EDTA

 

[Lcc86]

What the plants mostly want in terms of Nitrogen is ammonium. This an ion of ammonia which, when dissolved in water, most of it turns to ammonium which is way less toxic than ammonia. But some of the ammonia will stay ammonia unless the pH is acid (under 7.0). By the time the water is a pH of 6.0 ammonia levels are so low they cannot be detected by our test kits. But ammonium can persist. Most tanks in the hobby have a pH that is well above 6.0.

Since is would not be a good idea to add ammonia or ammonium to a tank with fish and/or inverts, most plant ferts use something else to provide usable Nitrogen to the plants. The two most common things for this are Nitrate (NO3) or Urea (NH2CONH2).

However, for the real plant nerds, adding ammonia and/or ammonium at very low levels is a practice some do use. But such folks have the experience and knowledge to do so and not harm the fish. They are also willing to dose frest at least dailym usually just before the lights come on. Some of them may add ferts multiple times/day.

But for the rest of us, keeping live plants should be a bit simpler. For the last 20+ years I have used Tropica liquid fertilizers and Jobe's Fertilizer Spikes For Lush Ferns & Palms. The one thing I do is I avoid digging up the Jobe's Spikes which are a time release fertilizer. Get it into the water and you will learn the meaning of being overwhelmed by algae.

The Spikes have Total Nitrogen at 16% of which 2% is Nitrate Nitrogen, 10.5% is Water Insoluble Nitrogen and 3.5% is Urea Nitrogen.
What us not in this fertilizer is ammonia/ammonium at any significant level. The comprehensive Tropica fertilizer I use contains 1.3% Notrogen supplied by nitrate and ammonium. It does not indicate how much of each contributes to that 1/3%. But my bet is the ammoint of ammonium is not enough to be a danger to fish in any way.

According to the linl to the ferts you use, they contain 17% Nitrogen. They do not say how, but that is somewhat high and is likely the source of your readings. Depending how deep your substrate is and then how deep you push the fertilizr "ball," it may be leeching something back in to the water. If you are disturbing the substrate to plant, repalnt or vacuum this can also release things back into the water.

SeaChem Flourish is mostly a micronutrent/trace supplier.

Here is the ingredient list. There is almost no Nitrogen in it and the Phosphate and Potash are also minimal.

Amounts per 1 g
Total Nitrogen (N)	0.07%
Available Phosphate (P2O5)	0.01%
Soluble Potash (K2O)	0.37%
Calcium (Ca)	0.14%
Magnesium (Mg)	0.11%
Sulfur (S)	0.2773%
Boron (B)	0.009%
Chlorine (Cl)	1.15%
Cobalt (Co)	0.0004%
Copper (Cu)	0.0001%
Iron (Fe)	0.32%
Manganese (Mn)	0.0118%
Molybdenum (Mo)	0.0009%
Sodium (Na)	0.13%
Zinc (Zn)	0.0007%

The advise dosing theirs individual N P K ferts if one needs these.

The TNC Plugs:

Analysis
1.5-0.5-6
1.5% N, 0.2% P, 5% K, 0.8% Mg, 0.08% Fe, 0.018% Mn, 0.002% Cu, 0.01% B, 0.01% Zn, 0.001% Mo, EDTA

Thank you for the detailed response. Do I just continue with daily water changes until the levels hopefully go down? I'm a bit puzzled as to why it's caused an issue now when I've used the same tabs before - from the same packet - without issue, it's just been a while since I've put any in.

Also just to add its not the specific one in the link which I have, that was just an example to show what kind of tab it was I used, I bought these so long ago I couldn't tell you what % of Nitrogen they have.

I did experiment with a few different liquid fertilisers available in my country and found seachem seemed to suit my plants so happy with that as a liquid fertiliser moving forwards. I don't keep any complicated plants.

 

[Naughts]

Yes. Do daily water changes for the mini cycle. It will just be a short blip until the bacteria catch up. I agree that you should discontinue those root tabs in favour of Seachem.
The reason you notice the spike this time may also be

1. prompter testing?
2. lower levels of beneficial bacteria?
3. slower plant uptake due to fewer plants or stalled growth rate?

 

[Lcc86]

Yes. Do daily water changes for the mini cycle. It will just be a short blip until the bacteria catch up. I agree that you should discontinue those root tabs in favour of Seachem.
The reason you notice the spike this time may also be

1. prompter testing?
2. lower levels of beneficial bacteria?
3. slower plant uptake due to fewer plants or stalled growth rate?

Thanks, have just done another change now. I had steroid injections in my back a few days ago so emptying buckets is far from ideal but I know it has to be done. I've added a little extra seachem prime which I use anyway as my dechlorinator as I know it can help temporarily bind ammonia.

Will test again tomorrow and hope things are going in the right direction.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Yes, I had that nightmare when I used cheap, unbranded root tabs from Amazon once - NEVER AGAIN!!

It took two weeks of huge daily and 2x daily water changes, using Prime in between changes to save fish from Nitrite poisoning, and constant combing through the sand to remove as many of the tiny balls of weird ferts that sent my nitrites sky high to remove as many of them as possible, since the capsules of course dissolved within a few hours.

That's all I can suggest to do. Use Prime at the dose recommended to bind ammonia and nitrites in between HUGE daily or 2x daily water changes, and hand removing as many of those tiny balls of ferts as possible. A turkey baster is good for sucking them up, although it's tedious, but it won't stop until you've removed them or they've all finished leeching. But I was on it right away and it still took two weeks of work to stablish the tank again.


Then only buy name brand root tabs! The tetra one isn't crazy expensive and gives good results!

 

[Lcc86]

Yes, I had that nightmare when I used cheap, unbranded root tabs from Amazon once - NEVER AGAIN!!

It took two weeks of huge daily and 2x daily water changes, using Prime in between changes to save fish from Nitrite poisoning, and constant combing through the sand to remove as many of the tiny balls of weird ferts that sent my nitrites sky high to remove as many of them as possible, since the capsules of course dissolved within a few hours.

That's all I can suggest to do. Use Prime at the dose recommended to bind ammonia and nitrites in between HUGE daily or 2x daily water changes, and hand removing as many of those tiny balls of ferts as possible. A turkey baster is good for sucking them up, although it's tedious, but it won't stop until you've removed them or they've all finished leeching. But I was on it right away and it still took two weeks of work to stablish the tank again.


Then only buy name brand root tabs! The tetra one isn't crazy expensive and gives good results!

Yes I've been using my tongs to get the little balls out! Damn things... I've got all the ones I can see for now but will keep checking.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Could be a few reasons why now and not last time - if you didn't bury one as deep this time, or have a fish that digs like many cories and plecos do, could have unearthed one and not had that happened before, but did this time?

Also depends what substrate you have - I was able to dig through and uproot the little balls of ferts since my substrate was sand - I'd be much more concerned about doing that in a planted substrate since those can leech too if disturbed a ton

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Thanks, have just done another change now. I had steroid injections in my back a few days ago so emptying buckets is far from ideal but I know it has to be done. I've added a little extra seachem prime which I use anyway as my dechlorinator as I know it can help temporarily bind ammonia.

Will test again tomorrow and hope things are going in the right direction.

Ouch, I'm really sorry! Not fun timing

Might be worth hiring a local to help you shift buckets, or investing in a bin with wheels/a dolly since you'll likely have to do a lot of water changes as it stablishes again.


Hoping for your sake that it isn't as bad as mine was! Depends what's in it - and also the fact I had a lot of heavy root feeding plants, so I stuck a load more tabs in there than you did! So crossing fingers for you that it's not so bad.

Remember that you need to dose Prime at the level needed to bind ammonia and nitrites for the whole tank, and that it only bind for 24-48 hours, so I only used it for in between the daily changes - but I also hadn't just had steroid injections in my back!

If you have to make a run to a fish store for anything, I'd also invest a big bunch of a fast growing stem plant, or beg/borrow/steal from local hobbyists, let the plants lend a hand soaking up the excess ammonia

 

[Lcc86]

Could be a few reasons why now and not last time - if you didn't bury one as deep this time, or have a fish that digs like many cories and plecos do, could have unearthed one and not had that happened before, but did this time?

Also depends what substrate you have - I was able to dig through and uproot the little balls of ferts since my substrate was sand - I'd be much more concerned about doing that in a planted substrate since those can leech too if disturbed a ton

Luckily I only have sand substrate so hopefully it will get better from here. I'm a bit cautious of doing too big a change in the 30gal as I got some shrimp a few months back and I know they can be quite sensitive so am sticking with around 50%. I can't find the baby shrimp any more so not sure if I've inadvertently sucked them up during cleaning

 

[Lcc86]

Ouch, I'm really sorry! Not fun timing

Might be worth hiring a local to help you shift buckets, or investing in a bin with wheels/a dolly since you'll likely have to do a lot of water changes as it stablishes again.


Hoping for your sake that it isn't as bad as mine was! Depends what's in it - and also the fact I had a lot of heavy root feeding plants, so I stuck a load more tabs in there than you did! So crossing fingers for you that it's not so bad.

Remember that you need to dose Prime at the level needed to bind ammonia and nitrites for the whole tank, and that it only bind for 24-48 hours, so I only used it for in between the daily changes - but I also hadn't just had steroid injections in my back!

If you have to make a run to a fish store for anything, I'd also invest a big bunch of a fast growing stem plant, or beg/borrow/steal from local hobbyists, let the plants lend a hand soaking up the excess ammonia

Thanks, I would usually ask my partner but he's gone to a festival so am home alone. We're in a flat so can only use buckets to do changes unfortunately. Just the way it goes!

I'll update after I test tomorrow, hopefully the additional prime will help (and also give my back a rest!).

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Yes I've been using my tongs to get the little balls out! Damn things... I've got all the ones I can see for now but will keep checking.

I found when I tried aquascaping tweezers, they were even more likely to just crush in between the tongs and made things worse! If you have a fine enough fish net, I'd lower it into the tank, manually scoop as many into the net as you can to remove them, even if it means sacrifying some substrate. or sifting out the balls and rinsing then replacing the substrate outside of the tank, so you don't wind up releasing even more ammonia into the tank in the effort to remove them!

 

[Lcc86]

I found when I tried aquascaping tweezers, they were even more likely to just crush in between the tongs and made things worse! If you have a fine enough fish net, I'd lower it into the tank, manually scoop as many into the net as you can to remove them, even if it means sacrifying some substrate. or sifting out the balls and rinsing then replacing the substrate outside of the tank, so you don't wind up releasing even more ammonia into the tank in the effort to remove them!

Ah I must have the magic touch I seem to be able to grab them just right!

 

[AJ356]

I think you said you are using straight RO? That means your pH will be 7.0 or very close which means the ammonia will be quite a bit less toxic than say pH 7.5 or so which you might get in your area of UK without RO? Unless you are adding anything to the RO that raises the pH. Do you have a pH kit out of interest? Also, are you getting any nitrite readings?