Ammonia Issues In Cycled Community Tank

[FishMonkey]

Just ordered myself a 500ml bottle of Prime, i'll use that going forward.
 
Does anyone add any other chemicals to their tank, or just dechlorinator?

 

[McCool]

Just ordered myself a 500ml bottle of Prime, i'll use that going forward.
 
Does anyone add any other chemicals to their tank, or just dechlorinator?

I only ever use the prime, and flourish excel for the plants. Honestly I try and stay as far away from the chemicals as I can, they usually seem to cause more trouble then their worth.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

McCool, it is a good idea not to use Prime and Excel at the exact same time. But you don't have to take my word for this, here is what SeaChem states:
 

 

04-10-2013, 12:22





Tech Support LD

Administrator


 


Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 86
 




Re: Prime Overdose and Excel Together
Hello NicciL,
You are correct that you should not dose Prime together with Flourish Excel because they are reducing agents. If you are cycling you can add Prime every 48 hours; no need to add it daily. It is better to be safe and not use them both; especially at the higher doses.

from http/www.seachem.com/support/forums/showthread.php?t=7007

 

[McCool]

Oh wow, I never heard that! Thanks for letting me know. I'll be sure to remind myself next time I'm doing tank maintenance!

 

[FishMonkey]

Thanks for the responses.
 
I think i might have an idea why my Ammonia levels are rising, i think i have a rotting fish somewhere, there has been a Molly fry missing for about a week now, he was a 'freebie' from my LFS and i realised recently that he was a bit deformed, i was actually going to remove him but haven't been able to find him, i cleared everything out of my tank, gave it a really good gravel clean but still can't find it anywhere, obviously this still doesn't explain why my Nitrite levels haven't risen to coincide with the Ammonia though.
 
I tested my water last night (not saying the test is perfect) and my Ammonia was up to 1.0ppm, it has never been this high, not even when i was cycling my tank, i also had a new test kit as my old one is nearly out, so used new test tubes (after rinsing well) and new test substances and tested again and that gave me a reading of 1.0ppm too.
 
I did another 50% WC then tested again and my Ammonia dropped to 0.5ppm as expected.
 
I appreciate that this could be non-toxic Ammonia, and this could be due to the conditioner giving a false-positive result, but it still worries me.
 
If i do have a rotting fish, surely this should be getting converted to Nitrite, or could this ruin my tank and needs to be found?
 
The only place that the dead fish can be is under my pump and heater, but i can't get into there properly as i have the Juwel corner setup, and as i said i have searched the rest of the tank by removing everything except the gravel. Does anyone have any ideas what i can do in this situation?
 
Thanks again.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

First off, dead fish, especially when not big, are usually food for other tank inhabitants.
 
Next, if you read 1 ppm, change 50% and read .5 ppm, then the odds are it is really ammonia. But this also means you should see some nitrite as well.
 
The "good gravel clean is probably the reason for your ammonia reading. Contrary to what many folks thing, there is a reasonable amount of good bacteria in our substrate. in a non-planted tank it is restricted to the top 1/2 inch or so. Doing a deep gravel clean will cause turnover from top to bottom and this is turn my put some bacteria into anaerobic areas where they can not function or last. i good surface cleaning should not greatly disturb one's substrate.
 
Again, 1 ppm of ammonia in pH 7.6 and 80F means .0256 ppm of NH3. Your fish are not in great danger at this level, Unless you see them behaving abnormally, i would allow the 1 ppm of ammonia to work itself out over the next few days. However, I would not want to see it go higher. Bear in mind that nitrite can be handled short term with the addition of a small amount of salt.
 
Hopefully, the bacteria will catch back up fairly fast here.
 
Signs Of Ammonia Poisoning
 
Fish will not behave as they normally do. Signs of ammonia poisoning can include sluggish behavior, panting, and gill discoloration (gill burn). Fish may hang just below the water surface or they may hide or stop eating. When you know you have ammonia in the tank during cycling and you notice such behavioral changes, the best course of action, regardless of test results, it to do an immediate water change of 50% or more.
 
Signs Of Nitrite Poisoning
 
Fish will not behave as they normally do. Because their blood is not carrying oxygen, fish will behave as if they are suffocating. They may hang just below the water surface or near filter outflows trying to get air. What you will not see is any outward sign of bodily damage nor damage to the gills of the fish.

 

[FishMonkey]

OK so that makes a lot more sense to me, i hate being so new to this, but we all learn from our mistakes and i am learning the harder way, so am really greatful for all the help you guys are giving me!

My fish are all behaving normally, the only time they come to the top of the tank is when they see me cliose by (as they know i am the bringer of food) or when i am feeding them, their gills look normal and none of them are gasping, i also haven't been losing any fish (except the 1 deformed Molly fry).

I hope the bacteria does catch up fairly quickly, it has been just over 2 weeks now that i have seen the Ammonia building up and no Nitrite so would have though this would have levelled out by now, but i will make sure not to clean the gravel so well, might skip that this week, and just do a 25% WC on Saturday like i would normally, but not be so regimented with my cleaning and see if this sorts it out.
 
I will have to see if changing from Stress Coat to Prime makes a difference too, that arrived today so will be using it with my next water change.
 
Thanks for all the info!

 

[TwoTankAmin]

Keep an aye out for nitrite. Look for ammonia not to rise further and hopefully to drop. You have wiggle room here, but that doesn't mean you are 100% out of the woods. That happens at 0/0.
 
Also, be sure to test soon after after you add the Prime.

 
A salicylate based kit can be used, but with caution. Under the conditions of a salicylate kit the ammonia-Prime complex will be broken down eventually giving a false reading of ammonia (same as with other products like Prime®), so the key with a salicylate kit is to take the reading right away.

from http/www.seachem.com/support/FAQs/Prime.html
 
This situation should be dissipated after a day and better readings are again possible.

 

[FishMonkey]

I just wanted to provide an update on this...
 
So my last 5 days have been like this:
 
18/04
Ammonia/Ammonium - 0.5ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
25% Water Change + 2.5ml Prime (first time using)
Ammonia/Ammonium - 0.35ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
 
19/04
Ammonia/Ammonium - 0.5ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
50% Water Change + 2.5ml Prime
Ammonia/Ammonium - 0.25ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
 
20/04
Ammonia/Ammonium - 0.25ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
 
21/04
Ammonia/Ammonium - 0.1ppm
Nitrite - 0.2ppm
 
22/04
Ammonia/Ammonium - 0ppm
Nitrite - 0ppm
 
So as you can see, my levels are now 0/0 and it looks like i am out of the woods, looks like the Prime did the trick and i seen Nitrite for the first time in a month which was converted within a day to Nitrate.
 
Thanks again to everyone for your input/advice on this, always good to talk to people that know what they are talking about!