Ammonia Again?

[D3m]

Hi Guys, ive been waiting for the nitrites to drop for over 2 weeks now and I thought i was getting somewhere when the water started to become cloudy and quiet a bit of algae growing (which I read was supposed to happen on this forum somewhere), unfortunately the nitrites had'nt dropped at all and now after 24 hours i still have ammonia in my tank when it was dropping in 12 hours before.

Anyone got any idea what is going on?

 

[OldMan47]

Have you been doing anything different? What is the pH in the tank? A low pH can slow or stop your cycle progress. If it has dropped on you, do a large partial water change to restore the pH to prior levels and re-dose with ammonia. If the nitrites are too high to read, do a very large water change, like 90% or more. This will get the pH back to normal and allow you to see what is happening with the nitrites too.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

yup cycle has stalled for whatever reason, pH is the most common so test that then do a massive water change (90%) and re-charge with ammonia, sometimes it just needs kick starting.

 

[D3m]

ive just tested the water and the ph has gone down to 5.5, my tap water is 7 so I will do a massive water change.
The only thing I have been doing differently is adding more bogwood from time to time and now have 6 bits in there of various sizes, coiuld that affect the ph?

 

[Miss Wiggle]

the process of fishless cycling itself drives down pH, there's a link in my sig about pH and KH and buffering them, I'd recommend you read that.

Now you don't necessarily need to buffer it but it's good to start trying to understand it all now as it can get a bit tricky and complicated.

what i'd recommend for now is the water change, then keep monitoring the pH and doing water changes as appropriate to get it back up. post your results up here for pH and details of what water changes you've done, after a few days it'll start to become evident to us weather we need to think about buffering or not.

If you can get hold of a KH test kit then this would be very very helpful to us, they can be tricky to come by sometimes though.

 

[D3m]

OK, Ive just done a 90% water change and added Ammonia to get that back up to 3ppm, pH is at its normal level of 7 and theres high levels of Nitrites and Nitrates. Normally I do my testing at 7pm every night but as I have had to add ammonia at 12 am Should I bring it back upto 3-4ppm again in 7 hours or leave it till tomorrow night?

 

[Miss Wiggle]

Leave it until tomorrow night

 

[D3m]

Ok will do, Thanks for fast reply

 

[D3m]

Update: 31 Hours Later

Just checked pH and thats still 7, no Ammonia in the tank at all so raised it back up to 3-4ppm and Nitrites still as high as the chart gets. So im basically back where i started before this mess happened.

How long does it normally take for a tank to cycle the nitrites out assuming theres no stalling in between? I dont know if I should start worrying after almost a month of nitrites with no sign of improvement

 

[waterdrop]

The nitrite spike phase (2nd phase of fishless cycling) is often twice as long as the first phase where you work on getting ammonia dropping.

Fishless cycles (without mature media) seem to take anywhere from 3 weeks to 3 months. You sound potentially like one of the types of cases with pH crashes that can tend to lengthen it out toward the 3 months.

There are thought to be several broad ranges of significance to pH in fishless cycling:
pH above 9.0 bacteria may die
pH 8.0 - 8.4 suggested to be ideal, especially for N-Bac growth (nitrogen oxidizing bacteria)
pH 6.3 - 7.9 bacterial growth occurs, growing slower as pH goes downward
pH 6.2 this is suggested to be the stalling point at which bacterial growth stops
pH 5.5 - 6.2 bacterial growth is stalled, waiting to restart if pH rises
pH below 5.5 bacteria may die

This of course refers to the beneficial chemolithoautotrophic bacteria we are trying to grow in our filters during fishless cycling, not to other bacteria in the tank. Note that we don't recommend that beginners put any chemicals in the tank (other than for conditioning the tap water.) If there is a serious problem with pH its best to discuss it with the members on the forum before taking any actions.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[D3m]

Thanks for the pH chart Waterdrop, I suppose as it seems fine at the moment I will just continue with the cycle and hope for a happy ending, if anything does occur i will record it on this post asap

 

[waterdrop]

 

[D3m]

A friend at work has just told me he has a tropical fish tank and is offering me anything out of the tank I might need to quicken the cycle up. Hes not too sure about giving away his filters even though i could replace a brand new one with one of his two old ones, the other two options he offered was giving me some of his gravel or 5 gallons of water to dump straight into the tank. The only thing that concerns me is he keeps talking about dead fish all the time, should I be concerened about using anything from his tank? and would just water work or would gravel be better?

Post Edit 7pm Tonight: No Ammonia, pH 7 and Plenty of Nitrite same as last night.

 

[Miss Wiggle]

the bacteria are not free swimming in the water, they cling on to surfaces so there will be a small amount in the gravel, but this is a tiny proportion as they need a good flow to grow properly. the filter is designed as the best place to grow bacteria and because it's such an ideal home for them, most of them live there!

you'd be best to get some filter media

however that being said if you have any concerns about the health of his tank and fish then politely decline the offer as you just risk cross contamination.

 

[D3m]

He seems to think its just natural causes that kill his fish and he had fin rot 18 months ago, im also going away in a month and need fish in the tank before that as I can get someone to come round and feed the fish but cant ask someone to come round and do all the test for me!

So I think I will try and get his filter and see were that takes me.